Learning About Australia

[jibbby]

yeah i find myself watching SBS and ABC a fair bit these days - i just can't handle commercial stations and their stupid news broadcasts.

Aaron ever heard of Tivo it's a wonderful addition to your tele? That elimates every commercial in TV shows that are recorded...It also allows you to record your favorite shows when you are not at home.. It's brilliant..Again, I am with you on this, I hate watching commercial and advertisements as it is a waste of my viewing time...

Stormy, I appreciate the nice words... Thanks..

Brew and footy.... Same in the UK, and many other parts of the world... Sounds like a good time to me... We have Football, Baseball and beer also in the States.. Footy is starting to grow fast in the States, with our newly founded leagues and footy players like Bechem and what not playing over here for millions of dollars year round..

Sport and beer is a common pass time around the world...

I went to a footy game in Scottland years ago and the fans were nuts, fights were busting out in the stands, beers were flying, people were out of there minds, it was crazy as it must of been a big match between arch rivals (England vs. Scottland or something)...I had a drunken blast and I didn't even know who I was rooting for, go figure? I just went nuts like everyone else when one team scored and it didn't matter which team it was.. The fans near me thought I was crazy..... I thought the Oakland Raider football home games and fans in the US were crazy in their beer drinking drab states, the Raider fans look like a pack of sissies compared to what goes on overseas at some of these big footy matches... I can imagine the bigger Aussie footy matches are no different..


If you guys ever won the world cup I am sure there would be riots and Kaos thru out the sun burnt country....

 

[Pro]

footy (AFL) matches are as tame as hell because

a) you can only buy midstrength beer in a stupid plastic cup after waiting in a 100 strong queue
b) the toilets are packed so you can;t jump up and down for fear of bursting at the seams.
c) there are cops and security guards every 9 metres (25-30ft)
d) if you do avoid the cops, the crowd cameras will get you.
e) everyone in Australia is afraid of doing something wrong.

 

[jibbby]

Xr - I can't say that I hate red necks because I still got a little red neck in me myself... Born and raised that way what can you do?

I use to be totally right sided, a hard core Republican conservative, close minded, and a bit prejudice too.. As I grew older, started traveling the world and got educated my thinking changed completely.... Visited alot of poor Countries and small villages.. Met real people....However, I still like the old red neck sceen once in while though, budwiedser beer, the Chevy and Ford big block power and sound, pig roasts, hunting a bit, etc... I just can't seem to completely get that out of my blood just yet...:smoker:

The truth is - I've lost a bit of trust in my Country over the years.. Times have changed, and I certainly don't trust our leaders and government anymore... Failed businessmen that run for office and pretty much are saying what ever they need to say to win, how can you trust that? The US is still a great country to live in and become successful if you apply yourself and that is the truth...Whether your American born or not.. Just look at Arnold Shwartzenneger and Australian born Mel Gibson for example.... Stuff is cheap here and one can always find work or start a lucrative business... It truely is the land of opportunity...However, I don't think the USA is the greatest country in the world, because I've seen other countries that are close like Canada and others, Australia too from what I can tell, etc... People whom say their country is the greatest just haven't traveled the world in my humble opinion..

Trying for a little Global unity on this thread are we????

 

[stormtrooper]

Whether your American born or not.. Just look at Arnold Shwartzenneger and Australian born Mel Gibson for example....

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Mel Gisbon is yankie born and moved here as an infant cause his father got the craps up with America becoming to soft or something. The old man even left the Catholic church and wrote his own litergy to keep his family following the "old ways" , thus the anti-semitic outbursts a couple years back.

Trying for a little Global unity on this thread are we????

Yeah as soon as the international comunity, or at the very least the African Union, does something about Mugabe in Zimbabwee I'll be in with the Global Unity idea too.

 

[Pro]

i was leader of the world - there'd be fewer people in it.

people like mugabe, winnie mandela, din al-alhazeera (sp)- dead.
rockerfellers - dead.
kennedy's - dead.
bush - dead.
his children - dead (you dog, dead. you cat, dead. you neighbours, dead....)
kim jong il - dead.
japanese whaling commission - dead.
the whole Javanese island - dead.

gee i'd be a great dictator. you mess up? dead. late for your credit card payment? dead.

LOL - okay i'm a sick bas___d.

 

[XR8tt]

We may have different views to red neck??
To me [hard to explain ?] Its one who thinks his sh!t don't stink and every other people, country etc are not as good as theres... Don't care what goes on in other parts of the world..
Yes WHY oh WHY is taking SOooo long for things to be done in Zimbabwe ?? I'm sure if there was a united force sent there ? There would be very little resistance.. Watching SBS last night. How can the rest of us let this go on ??? People are being burnt ALIVE . Laying in hospital with NO pain killers !!! You have be joking !!! Black purple or pink they are human beings...

 

[Pro]

the NWO engineer this crap to make our problems seem insignificant, while they mine away our rights, freedoms and priveleges from underneath us as we watch.

honest to god, if i had $1mil to spare, i would head to Zimbabwe and offer it as a bounty on Mugabe's head.

 

[jibbby]

Zimbabwe is not the only country with problems... Burma is bad, parts in the Middle east, and many others... The world has some screwed up places for sure.. So I must say our countries are blessed in that regard.. I think we should all be very thank full and grateful for that alone......

God bless civilized countries....

Pro - You are a ruthless young lad indeed...... But I am kinda with ya on that too, what's going here?.... I believe in capital punishment, and maybe even a caining or two for repeat offenders, etc..etc..

I simply don't think you can rehibilitate a proven serial killer, and I'm sure you don't want to take that chance and find out regardless..... Dead I say!!!... Why should my tax dollars have to pay for a waste of life behind bars... That guy probably isn't going to be a good roll model for other inmates either, right? Does my logic make sense for execution? I think it does unless you are an extreme human rights activist in which case there is no justification for taking ones life......

Did you know Sigapore has little or no crime... Why? Because they will cane your arse if you get out of line... However, I must say I have never been cained nor want to find out and with my past history I may have been cained once or twice for my behavior as a teen..... Maybe I take back that comment come to think of it...... I have seen the belt and the fathers hand a few times as a young trouble maker and that usually straightened me up real fast..:spankme:


I am done... I am getting a little off topic here...

 

[Pro]

i love singapore.

we were walking down the street and passed some locals (we stay just near the muslim quarter) having a VERY serious debate about something they were all standing around.

i thought it was a debate - they were actually YELLING at a tourist who had dropped a glass bottle on the road, it smashed, and she tried to walk away.

she was on her hands and knees cleaning it up when i arrived.

we only saw ONE piece of rubbish in Singapore - a glass bottle left beside a fountain, still upright.

trouble is, the only thing to DO in singapore is work or shop.

 

[stormtrooper]

I have serious issues with the death penalty, case in point the very last hanging in Australia was publicly televised and the guy was hanged to make an example of him. 30 years later the marvel that is forensic science proved beyond ALL doubt the guys was not guilty. Another case where 80 years after the death penalty was enforced the "guilty" man was found, again through forensics, to be totally innocent. Both cases had political undercurrents and should never have been allowed in a "civilised" society to occur but they did.

The situation in Burma is bad, there is no doubt about that, but the UN can easily drop food and fresh water to the stricken areas. Zimbabwe on the other hand is just a mad place being run by a despot who will blame "colonialism" for the problems of Zimbabwe if any country that is not African interferes. The UN should do something, it MUST do something, but what do they do knowing what will happen? Assist the African Union for one thing and let them show Africa can stand united and help its own peoples.

Another problem with Zimbabwe and the worlds inaction is they don't have oil! I wont be very popular after this I know and I can take that no probs but I have to say we went into Iraq based on weapons that did NOT even exist when the reality is it was to keep oil flowing. Fat lot of good that has done. Rwanda was left by the UN, NATO, all the major European colonial powers and every country that could and should have helped. Why? cause its Africa and the worlds politicians don't give a crap about Africa since they got out of it in the decolonisation era. Even in the colonial era all they cared about was how much they could strip out of it.

I wouldn't get rid of entire nations or peoples, that just smacks of Nazi Germany to me. No need to enter a soveriegn state with a show of military might, just send a sniper in to take out the despot(s) that are the problem. I often wonder if America had succeeded with its assasination attempts on Saddam Hussien what the sitauation woud be like now compared to what it is like.

 

[jibbby]

Stormy, the death penalty I said should only be good for proven serial killers like the Ted Bundy's, Jefrey Dalmers, Ted N. the Unibomber, etc... Those you know are guilty 100% beyond a reasonable dought.... That's just what I think anyway..

Stormy, the Iraq issue will always be in debate as to why we went to war... Yeah, no weapons of mass destruction were found but Sadam acted as if he had them, defying UN sactions and inspections constantly, etc... Remember? A dictator in absolute power that reportedly torchered and murdered his own innocent people, etc.. He went to trial and was found guilty of those charges after captured... I am not so sure it was just "only" over oil as also there were many supporters for the war at that time outside the US... I do believe there were worse off countries that we could have gone to war with instead of Iraq, and that I don't dought... I do have a problem with countries that are experiencing genocide.. I also have a problem with Countries that have only one man it total absolute power.. Get one sick puppy in leadership and you can have genocide and then only war and or a revolution is the solution in most cases... Every now and then diplomacy can work though but that is usually only a temporary fix..

I just saw the movie (The Last King of Scottland) again that was based on sick puppy in leadership with total power.. Perfect example....

I believe if this war had ended abruptly in victory there would not be such a big stink... Then again, putting 100% trust in government reports and agenda's has always been a big question mark for me... The news coverage I do put some faith into though as long as it is not bias... It's just a skrewed up war period...

Politics and religion is always going to heated and debated... Always!! Everyone has their own views and beliefs that they usually stand strongly behind and are not easily persuaded away from.. That's human nature and that alone can start wars as proven thru history...


Back to topic - Curious, are there any Australians that were in favor of this Iraq war at the start?

 

[XR8tt]

We have had more issues with Afghanistan...
I think alot where for going inti Iraq ..
But we where alitttle brainwashed to the reasons why...
ARE WE ALL LEARNING ABOUT AUSTALIA ??
Good debate !! There should be more of this...
I could be wrong but I don't think Aussie is into extreme religion ??
Even as much as some area's in U.S...We are more footloose and carefree here... Ha religion and politics !!!

 

[jibbby]

One last comment about the war...

For me as a US citizen - I was absolutely in favor of the war at the start for several reasons and one reason was because of those suicidal fanatic "Arabs" that flew our air planes into the New York twin towers buildings and killed 5000 innocent people on spot (I know that was irrelevant to Iraq but it still came from the middle east) and the other was Sadam being so defient for so long... I really had enough and felt the need for payback in a sense, and I thought going to war against Iraq would send a strong message "don't mess with us again" making America a safer place to live.... Maybe it did offer up a message in some sense, the world and America are more aware now, and to date no more inccidents have happened on our homeland... Maybe it's just because of 9/11 and not the war too, who frigg'n knows...


Curious, How would you Australians feel if the same thing happened in let's say Mel Bourne, Australia where 5000 innocent were killed with an Arab dirty bomb and or terrorist plane crashings?

You guys would surely call for pay back, right? You guys are tough folks over their from what I can tell.. I've seen Australian compete in sports and there is no quit in you guys...Boxing, Olympics, surfing, rugby, etc.. You may lose but you always give it your best....

 

[ABDULLAH D AFGHAN]

I think Austrailia is an awesome country. i have a cousin who lives in sydney and he visited me here in Omaha NEBRASKA and was not impressed.

since we are on the subject of politics i just wanted to give my 2 cents
I am a US Citizen also but originally from Afghanistan. I have to say Americans are good people but US foreign Policy is not so much. I cant talk on behalf of IRAQ but in the case of Afghanistan, I think everyone can agree that for the most part its a failure. The main reason is the War in IRAQ. In 2003 the Taliban, extremist etc were rooted out, the Afghan people themselves were excited about America comming and liberating them, they were returning from the refugee camps of Pakistan and Iran to rebuild their country but then what happened? America goes to war in IRAQ and Afghanistan got forgotten just like after the COLD WAR.

My personal opinion is that America does not want Peace in Afghanistan and the Afghan ppl to stand up on their own feet. Not just America but any nation or nations (Greeks, Persians, Mongols, Arabs, British, Russians) that have tried to conquer Afghanistan wants to keep it as a buffer zone becuz it is strategically located near India, Russia, China and Iran. Although Afghanistan itself is only the size of Texas and poor but its resources are untapped, also if the US wanted to tap the resources of the Caspian, it can do so with going thru "Hostile" countries like IRAN and run pipelines to the Indian Ocean by Pakistan(U.S's biggest Ally on the War on Terror).

 

[Zuffen]

Abdullah,

If you look at the history of Afghanistan there have been many attempts to control it, ranging from the British 200 years ago to Russians and Americans.

No one has managed to do it.

Says something about the peole and their desire to live unmolested by outsiders.

 

[XR8tt]

Looking from outside.. To a "point" sanctions against countries can create an underground against the rest of the world..Which was part of 9/11..


Abdullah..
..Its very interesting hearing your comments and perspective views..

We, car enthusiasts often hang out at dyno shop where there's many nationalities.. From Arabs to Asians, I was extremely taken back when one of the 28 year old Vietnamese told me how he was treated in his own country when the war was over and the trouble his family went through on a boat to get here.. He was very young at the time.. He said they had land etc in Vietnam grew there own rice etc. But there land was taken off them after the war and couldn't feed themselves, 20 years latter and I could see the tears in his eyes...He and the other guys love Aussie..
I think at times we live in an insulated environment ...
But communicating like this and at the dyno shop the world needs more of... Yes some of these guys are Muslim..

 

[ABDULLAH D AFGHAN]

Thanks guys. My story was similar to your Veitnamese friend. During the Cold War, the puppet, Soviet supported communist regime of Afghanistan was cracking down on people who had been educated in America or had ties to America. Since my dad was a graduate of UC of Los Angeles and had worked for Peace Corps during the late 60's and 70's, they would come and search our house almost weekly for anything that they thought was spy equipment. At night we had to sleep in the basement becuz the Soviets along with the puppet regime troops were fighting the Mujahideen(freedom fighters). Its a very bad environment to grow up in. After a while you get used to hearing rockets and gunfire. Then it just becomes ordinary and you dont even flinch when a rocket hits ur neighbor's house or lands in your yard. I am very greatful to God that we came to America. The other thing is that its very very hard to immigrate to America, especially now. Unless you have a PH.D or lots of money, America does not want you.
Regarding autmotive stuff, I left Afghanistan at a very young age but I do remember that about 90% of the cars in Afghanistan were and still are TOYOTAs especially Corollas and Landcruisers. Also the Landcruiser is very famous in Afghanistan and is very much needed there due to the unpaved roads and terrain. All of the taxis in Afghanistan are Toyota Corolla. The Datsun pick up trucks are also very famous.

 

[Pro]

jibbby,

those planes were not piloted.

you have to ask yourself - you, personally, with no training, could possibly bank a 767, while accelerating and controlling descent, aim said 767 into a space 50m wide?

if not, then how did 2 pilots with no commecial jet liner experience manage to put those plans into a pair of towers 50m wide? there is a great CHASM of difference between a twin engine cessna, that they were supposed to have trained in, and a 767.

that is my basis for there being a fallacy behind the Iraq war. no politics, no conspiracies here (but there are) - just cold hard facts.

Kim Jog Il detonated a nuclear device underground - as being a "rogue state" - and nothing was done. 4 arabs fly a plane into a pair of buildings and it's worth a full scale war and invasion?

What about Mugabe? where is the US to help those poor innocent souls trying to vote for democracy? (no oil..)

What about Castro? he was a dictator and nearly brought the world into full scale nuclear war in the 50s and 60s. (oh that's right - he allowed the cocaine to flow thru to puerto rico and into florida - lets not forget guantanamo either).

What about the poor people opressed under the tribal heirachy on Diego Garcia? (That deserved a takeover, invasion and the construction of a military base smack bang in the middle of the pacific, right?)

Funny that the CIA organised the rise to power of Saddam Hussein himself. They betrayed the Kurds. Richard Helms, ex CIA director and PROVEN nazi sympathiser (he helped General Gehlen, nazi spymaster, set up an organisation INSIDE the OSS (now CIA) to make use of their ability to infiltrate Eastern Europe) was at the time Director for Plans when he organised to coup in 1963 to put the Ba'ath party into power.

Why? becasue the previous 1958 coup leader, Kassem, got recognised with his anti american approach and decided to nationalise the foreign oil companies (ie make them state controlled). he also pulles Iraq out of the US led "Bahgdad Pact" and decriminalised the ICP (iraqi communist party).

All this time, Saddam was a refugee in Egypt. he attempted to assasinate Kassem in 1959, but failed. Nevermind, the Ba'ath coup got him in 1963.

so why change what the US instigated?

Who else is starting to nationalise foreign oil interests? Hmm, lets think...Hugo...hugo....Chavez? Venezuela? He was elected by a democratic majority to do so. I'll put money on the fact he is either assasinated, Venezuela invaded or there is a political coup.

What about the fact that the taliban were "installed" by the CIA along with Osama Bin Laden (thanks to Bush/binLaden ties to do with Halliburton) in a mass coup that ABDULLAH D AFGHAN talks of, to form the Mujahideen and keep the Russians at bay when they tried to invade? The russians wanted the opium trade for black market money to further fund their arms race. Funny now the US has invaded Afghanistan just before Iraq to control what market to fund what now....?

there's only 1 word for this - bullsh1t.

 

[Pro]

if you learn one thing form this jibbby - it's that Aussies HATE a hypocrite.

me moreso than anyone.

 

[stormtrooper]

We have had more issues with Afghanistan...
I think alot where for going inti Iraq ..
But we where alitttle brainwashed to the reasons why...
ARE WE ALL LEARNING ABOUT AUSTALIA ??
Good debate !! There should be more of this...
I could be wrong but I don't think Aussie is into extreme religion ??
Even as much as some area's in U.S...We are more footloose and carefree here... Ha religion and politics !!!

I totally disagree with the first part of this, 95% of people I deal with agreed with the war in Afganistan, even years into it there looked to be real results. Granted now it has become a drawn out issue but it is a war and that happens.

Iraq on the other hand was never popular in Australia, we could see that our government wasn't telling us everything and we could see the US had a motive it wasn't telling everyone else. Yes Saddam was acting all tough but everyone seems to forget Iraq was a sovereign nation and he was the leader so he could act as tough as he liked.The invasion of Iraq was an illegal action and it is only the mere fact the west controls the UN that nothing has been done to the countries that were involved in that action. Everyone also seems to forget the West gave him nominal support against Iran. His issue started with the West when he invaded Kuwait (which traditionally was Iraqi anyway) and the West had to do something about it because they had publicly supported a non-elected group who controlled a massive amount of oil. I still remember Robin Cook (ex British Treasurer or Foriegn Minister I can't remember which) resigning because he had a fundamental issue with the invasion.