3SFE VS 3SGE?

[Death By Bass]

what are the differences? they both have the same bore and stroke, but the 3SFE has slightly higher compression ratio...

however, when you compare the specs...


3SFE- 88kw @ 5600rpm, 169nM @ 4400rpm, 9.3:1 compression ratio

3SGE- 103kw @ 6200rpm, 172nM @ 4800rpm, 9.2:1 compression ratio


so, is it simply that one engine is higher reving? or, are they different heads? different tune? completely different internals?

basically, I have a rather tired 3SFE here, which I'm looking to get more power from, and possibly supercharge... will a 3SGE head fit on the 3SFE block, and give power gains?

thanks for any input!

 

[gareth_r]

In the Toyota engine code, G =Wide Angle Twin Cam (performance) and F = Narrow Angle Twin Cam (economy).

 

[R-Jay]

hmm.... i just sold one of my gen 5 3sge Beams blacktop engines... dual vvti good for 210hp... talk about massive design advances... titanium valves rule.

 

[Thermactor]

3S-FE is one of the most gutless engines I've driven (in a 1988 toyota celica GT automatic), it felt like it had 40 hp

 

[Death By Bass]

3S-FE is one of the most gutless engines I've driven (in a 1988 toyota celica GT automatic), it felt like it had 40 hp

they have about 45hp at the wheels...

so, i guess the question is, can the G head be used in place of the F?

or, should I not even bother? Im wanting to get a SC14 supercharger, but was considering lowering the compression first...

take it as a learning experience... the car burns more oil than petrol... should I even bother? haha

 

[Jake Breyck]

generally the F version of a motor seems to make much better mid range power makeing it much more driveable where the g heads focus more on top end, makeing more impressive numbers yet not always a better driver impression, the 7th gen celica GT vs the celica GTS is a good example the GTS made more power yet the GT felt faster. the F heads are used on economy motors so they tend to get a bad rap amung tuners

if the series is the same then the heads are swappable the s series mentioned is swappable just like this mr2 i built its a 5S-FE block and a 3S-GTE head http://www.jakebreyck.com/Projects/mr2/
agoI also put togather a 7A-FE block with a 4A-GE 20valve head a few years. i almost put togather a 2jz block with a 1jz vvti head for my supra although its getting a 1uz instead
there has been mention of 1uz head on 2uz blocks on this forum so there are lots of possabilitys of hybrid motors as long as you stay within the same series. S with S A with A UZ with UZ jz with jz you get the point.

one thing to note a G head on a F block always raises the compreession and it also almost always make it into an interferance motor, this is assuming your useing stock pistons and stock head gasket.

also to note a taller block means some searching is required for a timing belt and you need to get creative with items that bolt to the motor such as water pumps also you have to pay attention to the water flow for items like the head gasket, pump and water line hookups fwd motors flow the water in the oppisite direction to rear drive motors. usually this never really comes up as a problem tho.

 

[Death By Bass]

ah, thanks Jake...

I wasn't quite trying to go to that extreme... lol

just wanting to ram 8psi into the 345,000km old engine and see what happens, but if its easy enough to lower the compression, I'd do that first.

 

[jibbby]

Different sized motors in my humble opinion...


4 bangers - Garbage, Yuck!!!! The only benefit you will see is in the weight department and at the pumps.. Gutless in most cases unless boosted....

6 bangers inline - Decent but usually no low end torque to speak of....Usually a very heavy block in comparison to the power out put N/A speaking.. Unless boosted I render the inlines a wash..

6 banger V design - Some potential, decent weight and power considering..

8 bangers - Good to go in all departments in most every case, very usable for any and every application for which you choose..

10 bangers - Heavy gas hogs... I am thinking Dodge, tons of lowend torque with rude power.. Heavy block...

12 bangers - Overkill but well balanced motors... Usually no Lowend torque to speak of, break downs are only a matter of time... Although, I did like the 12 banger in my old BMW 850 until the head gasket gave me problems... Again it was gutless off the line... The Jags are a nightmare and engine fire waiting to happen too...

 

[Death By Bass]

Different sized motors in my humble opinion...


4 bangers - Garbage, Yuck!!!! The only benefit you will see is in the weight department and at the pumps.. Gutless in most cases unless boosted....

6 bangers inline - Decent but usually no low end torque to speak of....Usually a very heavy block in comparison to the power out put N/A speaking.. Unless boosted I render the inlines a wash..

6 banger V design - Some potential, decent weight and power considering..

8 bangers - Good to go in all departments in most every case, very usable for any and every application for which you choose..

10 bangers - Heavy gas hogs... I am thinking Dodge, tons of lowend torque with rude power.. Heavy block...

12 bangers - Overkill but well balanced motors... Usually no Lowend torque to speak of, break downs are only a matter of time... Although, I did like the 12 banger in my old BMW 850 until the head gasket gave me problems... Again it was gutless off the line... The Jags are a nightmare and engine fire waiting to happen too...

umm, what are you talking about?

 

[Thermactor]

6 bangers inline - Decent but usually no low end torque to speak of....Usually a very heavy block in comparison to the power out put N/A speaking.. Unless boosted I render the inlines a wash..

I have to disagree about the torque, inline sixes are known for their high torque

 

[R-Jay]

That was abit general jibbby.... i think it would all come down to engine capacity and bore/stroke....

i wouldn't say the 4.5 toyota sizes or the 4.8 nissan 6 is low on torque....

and v12's being a breakdown ready to happen? maybe if it was from a european car.... haha

 

[jibbby]

Sorry, got off track and generalized with my personal experiences with the different motors..

Therm - Yes some of the larger inline 6 bangers have very good lowend torque, like my former 4.5 liter inline torquey land cruiser motor, but the smaller inlines I find to be gutless out of the blocks in most cases...