1UZ vs. 3UZ Heads (Worked ie: Ported)

[WICKED SC400R]

Have anyone gotten a hold of the NEW 2UZ (280HP) tundra head? Maybe that is factory ported with better cam? I know the 07' LS460 3UZ makes a claimed 380HP get that head and cam on a 1UZ we would have funnn:slaphappy .

I think the best days for this motor are ahead of us.

Are all the Lexus V8 platforms made today are 3UZ? Any 1UZ still in production anywhere?

 

[Lextreme II]

1uzfe stopped production end of 1999 (from 1989 to 1999). From 2000 on, all Lexus V8 are 4.3 or 3uzfe. Toyota remain the same as the 2uzfe or 4.7 Liter. From 2006 on the Lexus will get the all new 4.6 liters and Toyota get the 5.7 liters.

 

[Pro]

flow is important - yes. in an NA engine.

once you add FI, flow in an NA situation means pretty much nothing unless you're chasing every last single kW.

as long as you don't have any intrusions or steps in the port, it will make power quite easily.

 

[ed_ma61]

1uz vvti head ported with backcut valves just flowed (intake) 270cfm @ .400" 28" water

270cfm @ 28" h20 = 555.13hp

 

[turboandrew]

Wow, that is really good! Didn't the old 1UZ heads flow 135 cfm? Do you have numbers for lower lift, like .350 or .330? Thanks for doing this!

 

[WDoherty]

i think the head flow is important even in fi applications. I was going to post this as a individual thread but found this one and its relevant. Why does the 2jz have so much more volumentric efficiency over the 1uz. Stock for stock the 2jzge and 1uz lay down about 170 to 180rwhp. The 1uz has 25% more displacement, but i guess the 2jz is 25% more efficient. So, people are saying this is only true in n/a circumstances, i am not so sure of this. Lextreme's original project put down about 300rwhp on 7 psi with two t3's right. Don't most 2jz-ge kits advertise 300rwhp on 7 psi with fairly small turbo's. So even on boost the 2jz makes about 25% more power per cubic inch. Rdm20fan's twin turbo sc400 did 500rwhp on twin turbos at 20 psi and i have been looking at na-t 2jz car that lay down 500rwhp plus on 18psi on pump gas. So the 2jz may even outflow the 1uz despite 25% diplacement disadvantage once you get more up in the hp range. Bottom line, the headflow, velocity, combustion in the 1uz is poor compared to the 2jz. I do think the 2uz is much better and late 1uz's because i drove a a 2uz a noticed a big difference in low end punch and response. What does the 45 degree valve angle do on the 2jz. Is the narrow valve angle on the 1uz the hinderance. Any experts on heads/combustion chambers can explain what is up with the 1uz head. Does the 1uz intake manifold flow well compared with a 2jz? And the final question, can the 1uz head be ported to catch up with the 2jz, or is there fundamental design incorporated that can not be changed? Air and fuel makes power, an engine is really just a pump, so these flow figures matter. What factors do the stock 2jz and 1uz cams have to do with this, if any?

 

[cjsupra90]

i think the head flow is important even in fi applications. I was going to post this as a individual thread but found this one and its relevant. Why does the 2jz have so much more volumentric efficiency over the 1uz. Stock for stock the 2jzge and 1uz lay down about 170 to 180rwhp. The 1uz has 25% more displacement, but i guess the 2jz is 25% more efficient. So, people are saying this is only true in n/a circumstances, i am not so sure of this. Lextreme's original project put down about 300rwhp on 7 psi with two t3's right. Don't most 2jz-ge kits advertise 300rwhp on 7 psi with fairly small turbo's. So even on boost the 2jz makes about 25% more power per cubic inch. Rdm20fan's twin turbo sc400 did 500rwhp on twin turbos at 20 psi and i have been looking at na-t 2jz car that lay down 500rwhp plus on 18psi on pump gas. So the 2jz may even outflow the 1uz despite 25% diplacement disadvantage once you get more up in the hp range. Bottom line, the headflow, velocity, combustion in the 1uz is poor compared to the 2jz. I do think the 2uz is much better and late 1uz's because i drove a a 2uz a noticed a big difference in low end punch and response. What does the 45 degree valve angle do on the 2jz. Is the narrow valve angle on the 1uz the hinderance. Any experts on heads/combustion chambers can explain what is up with the 1uz head. Does the 1uz intake manifold flow well compared with a 2jz? And the final question, can the 1uz head be ported to catch up with the 2jz, or is there fundamental design incorporated that can not be changed? Air and fuel makes power, an engine is really just a pump, so these flow figures matter. What factors do the stock 2jz and 1uz cams have to do with this, if any?

Part of the problem with the similar numbers is the trannys. I have never seen a stock 2JZ-GE with an auto lay down more the 160rwhp and I have seen stock 1UZ (early style non vvt-i) lay down close to 200rwhp with a manual trans conversion. The other thing to remember is that have 2 additional pistons and rod being thrown around = larger inertia parasitic losses. The other big thing here to remember is that horse power is nothing but a number that really means nothing. Torque is what is important and is what accelerates a car, not horse power. The stock 1uz far surpasses a stock 2jz-ge in torque and if two identical cars (everything being equal except engines i.e. weight, gearing, driver, ect...) the car with the 1uz would be noticably faster as it has more torque and a more usable torque curve even though hp numbers are not that far apart.

 

[jgscott]

i think the head flow is important even in fi applications. I was going to post this as a individual thread but found this one and its relevant. Why does the 2jz have so much more volumentric efficiency over the 1uz. Stock for stock the 2jzge and 1uz lay down about 170 to 180rwhp. The 1uz has 25% more displacement, but i guess the 2jz is 25% more efficient. So, people are saying this is only true in n/a circumstances, i am not so sure of this. Lextreme's original project put down about 300rwhp on 7 psi with two t3's right. Don't most 2jz-ge kits advertise 300rwhp on 7 psi with fairly small turbo's. So even on boost the 2jz makes about 25% more power per cubic inch. Rdm20fan's twin turbo sc400 did 500rwhp on twin turbos at 20 psi and i have been looking at na-t 2jz car that lay down 500rwhp plus on 18psi on pump gas. So the 2jz may even outflow the 1uz despite 25% diplacement disadvantage once you get more up in the hp range. Bottom line, the headflow, velocity, combustion in the 1uz is poor compared to the 2jz. I do think the 2uz is much better and late 1uz's because i drove a a 2uz a noticed a big difference in low end punch and response. What does the 45 degree valve angle do on the 2jz. Is the narrow valve angle on the 1uz the hinderance. Any experts on heads/combustion chambers can explain what is up with the 1uz head. Does the 1uz intake manifold flow well compared with a 2jz? And the final question, can the 1uz head be ported to catch up with the 2jz, or is there fundamental design incorporated that can not be changed? Air and fuel makes power, an engine is really just a pump, so these flow figures matter. What factors do the stock 2jz and 1uz cams have to do with this, if any?

Would'nt the Cams have alot to do with it also ? Is it not true the the 2J has a little more aggressive cam profile for lift and duration, considering all things equal ?

 

[WDoherty]

Would'nt the Cams have alot to do with it also ? Is it not true the the 2J has a little more aggressive cam profile for lift and duration, considering all things equal ?

i'm not sure of the cam profiles, this is something i am curious about. Yet, i don't think there would be that drastic of a difference because they still needed the 2jz to idle like a lexus.
Also, most dynos that i have seen for auto sc300 is the low 170's and most sc400's in the high 170's, we are talking 5hp or so maybe. Those 1uz's i have seen with 200rwhp on manual conversions usually also have some sort of exhaust which accounts for a good deal of that increase, remember the 2jz is also working through that same bottleneck. I really want to hear from a head expert.

 

[WICKED SC400R]

Part of the problem with the similar numbers is the trannys. I have never seen a stock 2JZ-GE with an auto lay down more the 160rwhp and I have seen stock 1UZ (early style non vvt-i) lay down close to 200rwhp with a manual trans conversion. The other thing to remember is that have 2 additional pistons and rod being thrown around = larger inertia parasitic losses. The other big thing here to remember is that horse power is nothing but a number that really means nothing. Torque is what is important and is what accelerates a car, not horse power. The stock 1uz far surpasses a stock 2jz-ge in torque and if two identical cars (everything being equal except engines i.e. weight, gearing, driver, ect...) the car with the 1uz would be noticably faster as it has more torque and a more usable torque curve even though hp numbers are not that far apart.

Actually I raced a Modded Supra N/A today, on the jump, I pulled easily from him until I got past 4500rpm. From there we pretty much locked out up to 120mph. He may have been inching but he never would have cought me. I had 2-2.5 cars. The lower the speed, the harder I would walk him. I got him anything under 60. There is more torque but the 1uz is gutless up top and I don't really know why considering the stock cams are more top end cams than the domestics. The headers suck. It feels like the car would really take to boost well, with some exhaust mods.

I just bought the adapter plate from eric at ttc performance and want to do a custom intake with individual throttles, cams and lightweight flywheel and header/straight-pipe/x-pipe/exhaust and see what the top end difference is. I'll race the supra again. That is weird too, I raced a stock TT 6sp Supra and it didn't pull me at all. Either that modded N/A is a freak or the TT wasn't running right.

If that doesn't have results I want, I am just going to buy a 98 GS400 1uz and drop it in with the 6sp and tt from there swapping the intake and exhaust with the old 1uz...

 

[Pro]

yeah, the 2JZ has far more aggressive exhaust timing than the 1UZ.

remember, one engine is meant for the luxury car market where they balance and lathe the TYRES down for ZERO noise or vibration, and the other engine is designed for a 1600+kg sportscar that stops like it weighs 600kg.

 

[WDoherty]

the 2jz was originally designed and placed in the the lexus sc300

 

[jgscott]

Does anyone know any of these answers for a fact ?

1. Will the 1UZFE VVTI heads bolt on and match ports and work on the NON VVTI 97 pre Motor ? With the NON VVTI cams.

2. Will the VVTI 1UZFE intake Manifold bolt on and fit on the NON VVTI (97 and earlier) motor and heads ?

3. If you do a mild Stage 1 port, Combustion chamber work, Valves dehroud and flowed. How much RWHP can you expect to get from a motor (a pre 97 NON VVTI) with BFI and exhaust ?

4. Anyone already done any of these things ?

Thanks

 

[Pro]

the 2jz was originally designed and placed in the the lexus sc300

the 2JZGE was. the 2JZGTE was supra only, then aristo came later

 

[ed_ma61]

1. Will the 1UZFE VVTI heads bolt on and match ports and work on the NON VVTI 97 pre Motor ? With the NON VVTI cams.

no

2. Will the VVTI 1UZFE intake Manifold bolt on and fit on the NON VVTI (97 and earlier) motor and heads ?

no

3. If you do a mild Stage 1 port, Combustion chamber work, Valves dehroud and flowed. How much RWHP can you expect to get from a motor (a pre 97 NON VVTI) with BFI and exhaust ?

mostest random question evah ??

 

[jgscott]

no


no


mostest random question evah ??

Does anyone know any of these answers for a fact ? Key word FACT.

 

[ed_ma61]

spoon fed as a child?

dude, its FACT. why else would i bother wasting 25 odd keystrokes replying??

 

[qca]

Does anyone know any of these answers for a fact ?

1. Will the 1UZFE VVTI heads bolt on and match ports and work on the NON VVTI 97 pre Motor ? With the NON VVTI cams.

2. Will the VVTI 1UZFE intake Manifold bolt on and fit on the NON VVTI (97 and earlier) motor and heads ?

3. If you do a mild Stage 1 port, Combustion chamber work, Valves dehroud and flowed. How much RWHP can you expect to get from a motor (a pre 97 NON VVTI) with BFI and exhaust ?

4. Anyone already done any of these things ?

Thanks

1/2, the 1uz / 3uz vvt and the 2uz heads bolt on. these heads share the same later style intake manifold that does not fit the previous 1uz heads

3. not sure of the improvment in power yet
will post results when in

 

[ed_ma61]

vvti heads have completely different size valves, with different cam profiles, which if installed over non vvti pistons with their valve different flycuts/compression height will foul. the vvti engine is already interference, and vvti motion on non vvti piston will really fvck things up

the cams are completely different in design and profile, are not interchangeable, and will not work with/out vvti or vice versa

the ports do not match up vvti/non vvti

the intake ports and manifolds are completely different vvti to non vvti and do not interchange. 3uz/1uz vvti manifolds are not the same - though not sure if they interchange

nothing you have asked will work in the sense of BOLT ON

do things 'kinda line up and can be made to work with other custom bits and specific parts' - then yes. clearly this is not your question though

 

[jgscott]

vvti heads have completely different size valves, with different cam profiles, which if installed over non vvti pistons with their valve different flycuts/compression height will foul. the vvti engine is already interference, and vvti motion on non vvti piston will really fvck things up

the cams are completely different in design and profile, are not interchangeable, and will not work with/out vvti or vice versa

the ports do not match up vvti/non vvti

the intake ports and manifolds are completely different vvti to non vvti and do not interchange. 3uz/1uz vvti manifolds are not the same - though not sure if they interchange

nothing you have asked will work in the sense of BOLT ON

do things 'kinda line up and can be made to work with other custom bits and specific parts' - then yes. clearly this is not your question though

Theres always one in every crowd. Guess you are the one.Being that you are above your experience of knowledge, how about allowing others to respond with knowledgeable facts. You gave your short version of answers and are now on a 3rd post that is useless to my questions, and are now stooping to childless, imature name calling.

" mostest random question evah" ?? :wtf: Good answer and facts. Please don't even bore me with another answer about your experience with your ported head, I was talking about the Engine head, not yours !

In response to your "spoon fed" comment I will not give you the attention that you desire and lack.

Please Sit back and allow others to respond with a mature factual opinion.