Must reading for anyone that wants big power for the street

[JBrady]

Here is a serious reality check. If you are planning really big power, 600rwhp+ you NEED to study the following to understand what it is you are going to need and understand to be able to make use of your power.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1722299

 

[LondonBenji]

Yes absolutely agreed which is why I believe 4wd will be necessary for it to be usable over the 500-600bhp mark.

I mean there was the old rule of thumb that FWD can only really put 200-220bhp through the front. Now a couple of trick diffs and better tyres means that maybe 240bhp is possible but you are pushing it.

For RWD I am increasingly of the belief that 500-600bhp is going to be your limit, yes some trick tyres, LSD's and some technical wizardry may raise that limit maybe just make it even more usable at those levels.

Much past this mark I start believing that 4WD is essential for any to sensibly get in the car and put the power down. I am sure 4WD will also have it's limits, maybe another 400bhp on top so 1000bhp through all four wheels and then after that you are just going to get more traction issues and aren't necessarily going to be able to go any faster (at least off the line).

That saying I haven't really driven anything RWD and with anything over 387bhp (Ferrari F355 but didn't *really* get to drive it).

 

[JustenGT8]

Hmm dunno, quite a bit of dribble there. I have 530rwhp in a reasonably weighed car (1380kg) so i'm in the ballpark and it can definitely be punted hard no probs....all about throttle control and appropriate setup. No question it will bite if you are heavy handed (footed) and you can blaze the tyres whenever you want but will also run low 11's on my daily driver street tyres.

The biggest issue i find with such a powerful car is when you drive it you want to use it....and the street isn't really an appropriate place. I'm probably going to strip my car and turn it more into a track special so i can get the most out of it's potential instead of pretending it's still a 'street' car. Will still maintain rego so i can drive to certain events but no daily driver duties.

 

[LondonBenji]

Yeah but I think the point is when you start shooting beyond that 500-600bhp mark you aren't necessarily going any faster off the line and it becomes increasingly difficult to handle, especially in the wet.

I guess if you have turbo lag it can be an advantage to use that to stay OFF boost when you want to just drive sensibly....

 

[JustenGT8]

Not much of a point then...kinda obvious eh?

BTW i have bugger all lag and makes handling the power much easier. Big power laggy cars suck and with 4 litres there's no reason you should be suffering lag.

 

[LondonBenji]

obvious to some yes

What turbos you running at the mo again? I wonder what lag will be like in the life of 1000bhp on a 1UZ.

 

[rms]

I think the point JBrady is trying to make is that there is a common belief that you just mash the throttle and more hp will make you faster.
Tain't so.
The current obsession that you have to have 800 rwhp + to have a 'fast' car without consideration of all the other things required is absolute lunacy.

Even when you have all the requirements, you still need "a complex spacer between the steering wheel and the rear wheels" (driver) "a simple spacer will not meet the required standards".

 

[cribbj]

Couldn't agree more Erol; I think whenever the weight to power ratio of a car drops below 5 lbs per HP, it ceases to be controllable. You quit trying to drive it and just tend to "point" it and hang on.

In Supraland the guys who are pushing 1000 HP and up in these 3500 lb cars, usually acknowledge they're only good for show, drag racing, and dyno shootouts.

Having 4 digit HP is impressive, but I've had more than one high HP Supra owner agree with me that the cars provided more "real" driving fun when they were only producing between 400 and 600 RWHP.

 

[JustenGT8]

Yup no argument from me....my fave car of all time is the Lotus Elise and just watch that slaughter cars with alot more power on the track.

I guess in the circles i move in it's the whole 'package' we strive for and power is only sought when needed or it's just there for the taking. Case in point, my engine is stock...it just keeps making more power so easily with no mods other than tuning. At 320rwkw is was pretty near perfect; at 400rwkw it's a bit silly. Anything more from here is really just curiasity to see what this amazing engine will handle

The issue is just so bloody obvious that the length of discussion it generated on that site is amusing more than informative

Benji - turbos are KKK K27/K26 hybrids. They are turbos from a kit Blitz offer for the 3SGTE....good for 450hp each. I had the kit on my GrpA GT4 and a spare i picked up somewhere. Decided to drop them on the UZ and 'upgrade' the GT4 with a garrett GT2540 BB. Turned out to be a laggier turbo than the plain bearing KKK with less top end Anyways, the GT4 is long gone and i'm happy i went with the KKKs on the GT8.

 

[Red Supra]

Power is nothing without control.

 

[Anaema]

noone needs 600 bhp. hell, noone needs 400 if you know how to make a car right: Lotus style lightweight.

 

[JustenGT8]

Might not 'need' it, but sure is hell fun

If you're not building from scratch only so much weight you can take out....still some more to lose from mine but it will enevr be what i consider a lightweight (sub 1000kg)

 

[Anaema]

you know what needs to be on the street, LMP cars :Eyecrazy:

 

[jibbby]

God I love those LSx Chevy motors...They got so much power and potential they just kick arse in comparison to so many other motors...

The Vette's are basically the king of streets, and I am not even that fond of the Vette's, just the motors underneathe the hoods...

To understand how much power too wish for in ones car, traction, gearing, and the limits of all the cars automotive parts must first be determined...There can be an overkill factor...

 

[stevechumo]

..I mean there was the old rule of thumb that FWD can only really put 200-220bhp through the front. Now a couple of trick diffs and better tyres means that maybe 240bhp is possible but you are pushing it...

Yes, it's the old rule. But I've seen several 9 and 10 seconds Civics FWD. Now many factory FWD V6 cars are pushing near 300 bhp.

 

[LondonBenji]

Yes but how well are they actually handling it and do reviews talk about them 'tramlining' all over the place with horrendous torque-steer?

Yeah in a straight line maybe, although I am still darn impressed you can put enough power down to achieve a 9 second run in a FWD car.....

 

[stevechumo]

Yes but how well are they actually handling it and do reviews talk about them 'tramlining' all over the place with horrendous torque-steer?

Yeah in a straight line maybe, although I am still darn impressed you can put enough power down to achieve a 9 second run in a FWD car.....

It just depends on how you handle it. Here's the proof: http://youtube.com/watch?v=2bTqPQr-LJc.

And you can even see an Acura hanging together with a 10 seconds Supra: http://youtube.com/watch?v=1EdooP7tw_M&mode=related&search=.

 

[LondonBenji]

Oh I believe you mate, I just find it incredible that you can do it!

Sweet vid's there, LOVE the sound of the Supra on lifting off after the burn out..... nice

But here is a WONDERFUL example of why 220bhp in a FWD car is already pushing it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA4aU0xRT_4

 

[striker]

noone needs 600 bhp. hell, noone needs 400 if you know how to make a car right: Lotus style lightweight.

so: very, very true!

about the roadgoing LMP's I know a few who do, a couple of radical SR3's and one SR9 (ran in the LMP2 class at le-mans this year)
and a shed load of MK GT1 and Spire GTR's, almost all running Hayabusa or Gixxer engines to do the soundtrack justice.

you could build a spire GTR for under 15k$ and the 1uz fit's the chassis

all seem to have much problems with groundclearance:006: , but it's and unbelieveble sight when you see them going on the highway expecially more in a row.... brilliant

Grtz Thomas

 

[stevechumo]

Oh I believe you mate, I just find it incredible that you can do it!

Sweet vid's there, LOVE the sound of the Supra on lifting off after the burn out..... nice

But here is a WONDERFUL example of why 220bhp in a FWD car is already pushing it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA4aU0xRT_4

You're right. But if you stereotype all FWD are not capable of high hp & handling, I'll have to argue with it. The Alpha Romeo may have bad handling, but I never found the Honda to have bad handling. For FWD cars, I found the Hondas are the best handling cars out there, especially after being customized with the suspensions. I might miss other Makes, but that's my experience. I used to hang with a C05 Vette around the circle freeway ramps at 70 mph with no problem with my modified Accord & Civics. This includes all in and out traffics. Nevertheless, I don't drive anymore FWD due to the lack of luxury styles and power.