Lextreme II
Just call me "Lex"
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What do u guys think of mounting two PWR (4 x 6") between the radiator and the engine?
PWR Intercoolers
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The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
http://www.are.com.au
ARE have a lot of experiance and do an excellent job match the right system for your application.
PWR are "optimistic" with their power ratings. Their quality and service are less than great too.
In Oz the reverse is the case.
IMHO for those that are in the US, ARE is not going to be the answer as they are much smaller and like to be more "hands-on".
PWR in the US is probably more interested in their products and clients there than they are in Oz due to the market size. Based on my first-hand experiance (in Oz) the quality is not so good and don't believe the power ratings they give their products...however my experiance is based on WAIC products. I have NFI about their FMIC stuff.
And I also agree, we don't want to hijack the thread...if anyone wants detailed info on my experiance, pm me.
YMMV.
(and who is the twit that requires a post to have minimum 10 chars? I only needed 4!)
Just getting back to your question, you would want to make sure you are not impeding air flow out of your radiator. I think the overall length of the 4x6's are about 10 inches. Thats then 8 x 10 all up, thats 40 square inches. This could cause a block thru the radiator, and cause the hot air to fester in the radiator, causing increase engine temps.
Also, although you are running water to air with this, you would get a small amount of heat soak from the hot radiator air in you w2a coolers. As they are only rated at about 300HP each, you dont want to loose any of this efficiency.
From memory the 4x6 barrel coolers are rated around the 300-350hp mark. The larger the cooler the more stable the air temp will be as boost climbs. I see about 2 degrees climb in ambient air temp from 0 to 16psi with my 4x8 cooler.
Provided you can get the coolant temps down to ambient quickly, water to air works great.
Provided you can get the coolant temps down to ambient quickly, water to air works great.
greybeard
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If you're serious about a WAIC setup then get in touch with Richard at;Lextreme said:
http://www.are.com.au
ARE have a lot of experiance and do an excellent job match the right system for your application.
PWR are "optimistic" with their power ratings. Their quality and service are less than great too.
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Not to turn this into a PWR vs ARE thread, but my emails to ARE were ignored, while PWR were responsive and gave me some excellent advise & assistance on a specialised intercooler application I was working on recently.
AFAIK, ARE haven't established themselves in the US yet, while PWR have, and have a good following.
John
AFAIK, ARE haven't established themselves in the US yet, while PWR have, and have a good following.
John
greybeard
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You're right in that ARE probably aren't up to supplying a large volume market as is the US.cribbj said:
In Oz the reverse is the case.
IMHO for those that are in the US, ARE is not going to be the answer as they are much smaller and like to be more "hands-on".
PWR in the US is probably more interested in their products and clients there than they are in Oz due to the market size. Based on my first-hand experiance (in Oz) the quality is not so good and don't believe the power ratings they give their products...however my experiance is based on WAIC products. I have NFI about their FMIC stuff.
And I also agree, we don't want to hijack the thread...if anyone wants detailed info on my experiance, pm me.
YMMV.
I'd be keen to know what quality problems have been seen, because frankly the quality of my barrel intercooler is awesome! perfect tig welds, fully polished, but most importantly it works. A mates got an air to air pwr on his car as well and is happy with the quality also. I think they also make radiators for the v8 supercars over here in aus, so the quality has got to be there.
Due to how small they are they would be easy to add as a suplementary intercooling system for drag purposes. I had this idea (for a lexus v8) of retaining a FMIC air-air system, and then adding a barrel intercooler. But instead of hooking it to a water system with pump and radiator, hook it to a CO2 extinguisher with a NOS solenoid hooked to a boost activated switch. The idea being to blast co2 through the intercooler and get the air temps to near 0 degrees(or less).
Sure its not for everyday street use, but for the strip it could be a very effective method of intercooling. No heat soaked water tank at the end of the 1/4.
Due to how small they are they would be easy to add as a suplementary intercooling system for drag purposes. I had this idea (for a lexus v8) of retaining a FMIC air-air system, and then adding a barrel intercooler. But instead of hooking it to a water system with pump and radiator, hook it to a CO2 extinguisher with a NOS solenoid hooked to a boost activated switch. The idea being to blast co2 through the intercooler and get the air temps to near 0 degrees(or less).
Sure its not for everyday street use, but for the strip it could be a very effective method of intercooling. No heat soaked water tank at the end of the 1/4.
greybeard
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YHPMVWTurbo66 said:
(and who is the twit that requires a post to have minimum 10 chars? I only needed 4!)
Lextreme said:
Just getting back to your question, you would want to make sure you are not impeding air flow out of your radiator. I think the overall length of the 4x6's are about 10 inches. Thats then 8 x 10 all up, thats 40 square inches. This could cause a block thru the radiator, and cause the hot air to fester in the radiator, causing increase engine temps.
Also, although you are running water to air with this, you would get a small amount of heat soak from the hot radiator air in you w2a coolers. As they are only rated at about 300HP each, you dont want to loose any of this efficiency.
another idea.
I dont know what the configuration of your engine bay is, but i will assume that you have a battery in 1 front corner of your bay, and the other corner has the air box.
Put the battery in the boot, thro your air box in the bin, and put a pair of these in their places. They are an upgrade for ford xr6 turbo cars.
This photo was taken from www.capa.com.au
I dont know what the configuration of your engine bay is, but i will assume that you have a battery in 1 front corner of your bay, and the other corner has the air box.
Put the battery in the boot, thro your air box in the bin, and put a pair of these in their places. They are an upgrade for ford xr6 turbo cars.
This photo was taken from www.capa.com.au
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Good point about heat soak from the radiator. i've pondered the problem for quite a while. I plan on using my Crown air-conditioning condensor as an intercooler radiator. This will be 10mm from the radiator so it will get heat soak when stopped. I'm looking at using a hobbs switch to turn the fans on when the vehicle stops.
One interesting snippet with W2A intercoolers is the water in the intercooler system is actually cooled by the intake air flowing over the core.
Effectively the inlet charge is heated by the water in the intercooler system when off boost (when it doesn't matter) but the reverse happens when on boost.
One interesting snippet with W2A intercoolers is the water in the intercooler system is actually cooled by the intake air flowing over the core.
Effectively the inlet charge is heated by the water in the intercooler system when off boost (when it doesn't matter) but the reverse happens when on boost.
TOBES
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Lex, what HP level are you hopng to get with the twin GT28 setup?
I have been talking to PWR about using two 4"x6" barrels and the latest info is that they are rated @ 390 cfm or about 280 hp... About 560 hp total which may be a bit less capacity than you need...??
The next step up is a 6" dia barrel @ 970 cfm or 600 hp which is a huge jump, both in capacity and physical size.
By my own calculations they flow approx 31-34 cfm or 21-22 hp per sq" of the cross section area. So 400-450 hp will require approx 20 sq" which would be a 5" barrel, which they don't manufacture...
We are still discussing options..........
Looking at Lextreme's photo's of the turbo positions down low, the coolers would have to be mounted vertically to keep the intake pipes far enough outboard to make the 90 degree turn into the throttle bodies (if they are mounted opposite each other on the plenum). This would keep them well out of the area behind the radiator thus minimising air flow disruption through the radiator and heat soak.
Zuffen, the idea of using a switch to turn on the engine/cooler radiator fans at idle is excellent. Providing you continue to cool the water and pump it through the coolers then heat soak becomes a non issue. If the system can't handle the heatsoak when stopped it will never handle the heat from the 15-20 psi we would all love to shove through it...........
It also seems to be a silly idea to store water in a tank somewhere when it could be in the largest radiator that will fit where it is actively being cooled.
Phwee.....
I have been talking to PWR about using two 4"x6" barrels and the latest info is that they are rated @ 390 cfm or about 280 hp... About 560 hp total which may be a bit less capacity than you need...??
The next step up is a 6" dia barrel @ 970 cfm or 600 hp which is a huge jump, both in capacity and physical size.
By my own calculations they flow approx 31-34 cfm or 21-22 hp per sq" of the cross section area. So 400-450 hp will require approx 20 sq" which would be a 5" barrel, which they don't manufacture...
We are still discussing options..........
Looking at Lextreme's photo's of the turbo positions down low, the coolers would have to be mounted vertically to keep the intake pipes far enough outboard to make the 90 degree turn into the throttle bodies (if they are mounted opposite each other on the plenum). This would keep them well out of the area behind the radiator thus minimising air flow disruption through the radiator and heat soak.
Zuffen, the idea of using a switch to turn on the engine/cooler radiator fans at idle is excellent. Providing you continue to cool the water and pump it through the coolers then heat soak becomes a non issue. If the system can't handle the heatsoak when stopped it will never handle the heat from the 15-20 psi we would all love to shove through it...........
It also seems to be a silly idea to store water in a tank somewhere when it could be in the largest radiator that will fit where it is actively being cooled.
Phwee.....
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You need to decide how long your engine will be on boost to decide how much water you need.
I'm looking at a pump that will flow 10gal per minute.
I also figure 15 seconds of WOT on boost would be about as much as any normal road car would see. I sure hope my car has covered the 1/4 in less than 15 secs! Think about it 15 seconds at WOT from rest is nearly 100MPH! 15 seconds and if caught hand in your licence.
On a 15 second boost time you need 2.5gals of cooled water (1/4 of 10 gals). I think the air-conditioning condensor and a small header tank would give me 2.5gals. On that basis the water would never be heated in the core, passed thru the condensor and returned to the core in any "on boost" cycle.
The heated water will be cooled by airflow thru the condensor (and the intake charge) when off boost so next time you call up the power the water is cool again.
I accept the theory falls down when you tow a heavy load up the side of Mount St Helens for 5 minutes but I don't plan on that so W2A works for me.
I'm looking at a pump that will flow 10gal per minute.
I also figure 15 seconds of WOT on boost would be about as much as any normal road car would see. I sure hope my car has covered the 1/4 in less than 15 secs! Think about it 15 seconds at WOT from rest is nearly 100MPH! 15 seconds and if caught hand in your licence.
On a 15 second boost time you need 2.5gals of cooled water (1/4 of 10 gals). I think the air-conditioning condensor and a small header tank would give me 2.5gals. On that basis the water would never be heated in the core, passed thru the condensor and returned to the core in any "on boost" cycle.
The heated water will be cooled by airflow thru the condensor (and the intake charge) when off boost so next time you call up the power the water is cool again.
I accept the theory falls down when you tow a heavy load up the side of Mount St Helens for 5 minutes but I don't plan on that so W2A works for me.
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