info request; doing my homework on mkii swap

[the ghoul]

Hey all,
Im doing my homework for my project daily driver
http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=51601
sorry for linking to another forum, but i don’t want to start yet another build thread...

Well i decided I want to swap in a 1uzfe tied to the stock w58 down the road and im trying to get my hands on info.
don’t worry im not looking for a 'swap kit' or any thing like that. Im a certified welder, and work in a fabrication shop so building parts is no problem.

So far this is what i have collected (info wise)
-Phil Bradshaw is the man (and a very busy man seeing how i haven’t gotten an email back from him yet... but i understand)
-radiator needs to be upgraded; 3 row radiator re-core seems to be the way to go.
-Motor mounts will have to be fabricated; (found plans here: http://1uzsupra.com/)
-Re-drilled w58 flywheel is risky in some peoples eyes, but can be done easy enough, rumor has it Phil offers the service.
-bell housing adaptor plate drawings can be had here for $20 http://www.v-eight.com/tech_forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=753
-Exhaust manifolds will have to be custom made
-Fuel supply can be accommodated with a 255lph fuel pump

Here is what i would like info on
-If any one has a quality detail drawing of the 1uz flywheel bolt pattern (with all associated dimensions) id love to get a copy
-Any one got a link to a free wiring diagram for the 1uz, or *more ideal* a diagram or write up for the 83-85 supra swap? I know Phil has offered to sell adaptor harnesses in the past but as stated i haven’t had luck contacting him
-As with other engine swaps is there a 1uz igniter module/injector resistor pack or something that i need to get in addition to the engine/harness/ecu?

I have attempted multiple searches on this topic and have yet to find mkii specific info.
any help/links/info would be much appreciated..
thank you

 

[rwdfreak]

-Flywheel bolt pattern:
http://www.v-eight.com/tech_forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=1110&p=9115&hilit=flywheel+cad#p9115
Although I would not suggest anyone to do their own flywheel without a lot of R & D done to it. You don't want this thing to blow anywhere near you.

I measured the flywheel I've bought on a Mitutoyo CMM. This is an hypothetical Aluminum version of what it would be. I'm doing part of my end of engineering degree project on this.

-Look on lextreme home page in engine spec: http://lextreme.com/misc.html
-All igniter module/resistor pack or watever should be on the engine or in the harness. All of needed wires goes trough the main harness in the firewall (not like my Celica where the AFM and Igniter are on an other loom going in the fender then in the firewall). I did not got Phil's harness, but the reason I see for needing such a thing is that the 1UZ harness has a lot of uneeded wires when you disable the ECT auto box and the TRAC/ABS computer. Taking all of them is a tedious job and require a bit of know how.

Also I have a friend who's doing the same swap in a MKII and the tranny was 2inch further to the front of the car. You should need a thinner brake booster, hammer the tunnel (1UZ bell is too big) and the firewall for head clearance to make the tranny fit where it was in the first place.

 

[the ghoul]

-Flywheel bolt pattern:
http://www.v-eight.com/tech_forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=1110&p=9115&hilit=flywheel+cad#p9115
Although I would not suggest anyone to do their own flywheel without a lot of R & D done to it. You don't want this thing to blow anywhere near you.

I measured the flywheel I've bought on a Mitutoyo CMM. This is an hypothetical Aluminum version of what it would be. I'm doing part of my end of engineering degree project on this.

-Look on lextreme home page in engine spec: http://lextreme.com/misc.html
-All igniter module/resistor pack or watever should be on the engine or in the harness. All of needed wires goes trough the main harness in the firewall (not like my Celica where the AFM and Igniter are on an other loom going in the fender then in the firewall). I did not got Phil's harness, but the reason I see for needing such a thing is that the 1UZ harness has a lot of uneeded wires when you disable the ECT auto box and the TRAC/ABS computer. Taking all of them is a tedious job and require a bit of know how.

Also I have a friend who's doing the same swap in a MKII and the tranny was 2inch further to the front of the car. You should need a thinner brake booster, hammer the tunnel (1UZ bell is too big) and the firewall for head clearance to make the tranny fit where it was in the first place.

thanks man,
seems like your a handy guy to have around no matter what forum im on (celica-gts.com, celicasupra.com, here ,ect...)

I agree 100% on the flywheel, i wouldnt even dream of doing it if I didnt have access to a tig welder (plug weld existing holes) and a full machine shop (locate and drill new ones)..

bit discouraging on the bell housing clearence issues though... I wonder if i can get away with locating the engine a bit more forward to clear... i would hate to have to hammer in my freshly painted firewall!!
brake booster is no big woop, but that would suck to have to try to re-forum freshly painted bits!!

 

[rwdfreak]

bit discouraging on the bell housing clearence issues though... I wonder if i can get away with locating the engine a bit more forward to clear... i would hate to have to hammer in my freshly painted firewall!!

No no. It's one or the other

HEre are some pics of where it sit's without doing any modification to the MA6X Chassis. I'm hoping to do better, but there's no miracle.







You either have to make the driveshaft longer or make the engine go back. Getting a custom bellhousing like A1 turbo model would probably help the clearance issue, but I don't have experience other than home maid sandwich plate.

 

[the ghoul]

i was looking at the drive shaft today and there is a bolted joint right at the bearing carrier.
If i make a 2" doughnut *with the same four bolt pattern* and an offset bracket... (im pulling the 2" number out of my ars... im not sure exactly how far forward i can go, shifter location and clearance between sway bar and oil pan will prolly be the make or break).... looks like your darn close to as far forward as you can go with the shifter hu?
I guess i dont know till i see it eh?

BTW just bought my front sump 1uzfe *with cut harness and power steering pump alt ect...*

which got me thinking more on this....
Im making assumptions here... please correct me if im wrong...
- stock supra starter?
- 1uz-fe air meter?
- 1uz alternator?
- 1uz power steering pump adapted to supra rack?

 

[milisakeracing]

i was looking at the drive shaft today and there is a bolted joint right at the bearing carrier.
If i make a 2" doughnut *with the same four bolt pattern* and an offset bracket... (im pulling the 2" number out of my ars... im not sure exactly how far forward i can go, shifter location and clearance between sway bar and oil pan will prolly be the make or break).... looks like your darn close to as far forward as you can go with the shifter hu?
I guess i dont know till i see it eh?

BTW just bought my front sump 1uzfe *with cut harness and power steering pump alt ect...*

which got me thinking more on this....
Im making assumptions here... please correct me if im wrong...
- stock supra starter?
- 1uz-fe air meter?
- 1uz alternator?
- 1uz power steering pump adapted to supra rack?

- Keep the 1UZ starter. Pain to get to if anything goes wrong with it but otherwise seems to be extremely reliable.

- Get the 1UZ air meter unless you are going to a MAF, SD, or some other type of setup.

- Keep the 1UZ alternator, nice high current although bad placement if you spring a PS steering pump leak which seems to be inevitable on the 1UZ PS pump.

- take out the Supra lines and get them adapted to use -AN or JIC fittings. I did JIC with mine although I want to switch them over to -AN now instead. This gives you the ability to keep the hard lines in place and just unscrew the high pressure rubber lines if they go bad.

BTW glad to hear you're considering using my motor mounts. I am located here in Kalamazoo, MI too so feel free to stop by sometime and check out my 1UZ MkIII.

 

[milisakeracing]

Also, for wiring, check out Dr. Tweak at Phoenix Tuning. Believe he is a vendor on here.

 

[the ghoul]

Also, for wiring, check out Dr. Tweak at Phoenix Tuning. Believe he is a vendor on here.

thank you for the info! and yes, thank you for the mount info! very very handy
yeah i think i may have talked to you a couple times *at the time i was driving a red 2.5rs going to wmu, think we always saw each other at the gas station outside the firehouse*....
hey, is mermaids still around?
we should probably discuss specifics there over a 'business lunch' sometime

 

[the ghoul]

Also, for wiring, check out Dr. Tweak at Phoenix Tuning. Believe he is a vendor on here.

just dropped him an email looking for a quote, will post up the results when i get them...
im not all too sure how he is going to go about it though? It was my understanding that the 1uz-fe engine harness is going to be plugged into the stock 1uz-fe ecu and you will have to re-wire the non-engine connector going to the ecu?

This car is bare bones after all; mechanical radiator fan, no cruse, no AC, no alarm not much of any thing chassis wise running off of the ecu. I thought it would be a fairly straight forward transplant...
guess i could be a little turned around on that fact though...

 

[the ghoul]

man, I suck at life!
just spent an hour looking for this!!!!
http://www.lextreme.com/misc.html
I was hunting the forum looking for the info... never occured to me that it would be on the main page!
after dropping a price quote request for the custom harness survice it occured to me that my best friend is an electrical engineer that has done the wire work for all that swaps we have done to this point. so i figgured id get him the pinouts and what not and see if its too much of a pain for him to screw with or if we could knock it out in a couple of days....
BTW
Mkii supra diagrams can be found here
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK2/
(dissappointed that there are no good pinouts but what ev...)

 

[milisakeracing]

man, I suck at life!
just spent an hour looking for this!!!!
http://www.lextreme.com/misc.html
I was hunting the forum looking for the info... never occured to me that it would be on the main page!
after dropping a price quote request for the custom harness survice it occured to me that my best friend is an electrical engineer that has done the wire work for all that swaps we have done to this point. so i figgured id get him the pinouts and what not and see if its too much of a pain for him to screw with or if we could knock it out in a couple of days....
BTW
Mkii supra diagrams can be found here
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK2/
(dissappointed that there are no good pinouts but what ev...)

Not sure how close the MkII wiring is to the 87 MkIII wiring (slight wiring changes in '89 as far as body harness stuff goes but if it is close you may want to check out our wiring guides on my site just in case.

Wiring it only takes time, otherwise it is pretty simple (now that I have done it ). There really aren't that many wires that need to be connected to make the engine turn over and run. After that it seems to be just a matter of chasing down codes (hint: wire up a CEL for checking codes). There are only a couple of modifications to the engine bay harness and the underdash harness to get things rolling and the dash gauges working.

As for Mermaids, I'd have to look it up to see if it is still around and get more than 1/2 hour off for lunch, lol. I am not sure if we ever bumped into each other outside of WMU. I know there is another owner here in the area with the same color, or similar color, MkIII that I have yet to catch up with.

 

[the ghoul]

well i feel foolish for this but, i though "bellhousing adapter" ment engint to bellhousing, not bellhousing to transmission!
lucky for me the main man pulling the strings around here just happened to have a 1uz bellhousing sitting around
now ive seen this a fiew diffrent places and its debated quite a bit but it seems to me the most easy most streight forward clutch setup is re-drilled flywheel, upgraded w58 cluch, stock w58 hub/bearing/fork assembily...
I know there seems to be a fear of the flywheel comming appart if you have it re-drilled but seems to me if you have it done professionally all your doing is taking 1mm off each hole in the pattern... it dosent look to me that that is enough material to compramize the flywheel unless its off ballance...
So my real quesion is how do i get the clutch slave cylinder to work with it?
1uz is an automatic housing... does this mean i have to drill and tap holes for the slave and cut a slot for the fork?
or am i forced to do a hydrolic throw out setup?

 

[the ghoul]

sorry, answering my own questions
found this in another section click on the blue box with the grey arrow next to the posters name to view the context of the quote

for slave you will use this and there is no fork any longer
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HRE-82870&N=700+115&autoview=sku

ive been useing it for about a year now and love it, cjsupra90 and another local friend of ours are useing this same setup, it works well

Any one got a cheaper over the counter alternative? Ex; a throw out setup from a stock usdm car, one that I could get at any auto parts store?

BTW;
I know this is starting to read like a project log, but at the end of it all, im going to make it a swap thread with all the info on post #1

 

[milisakeracing]

well i feel foolish for this but, i though "bellhousing adapter" ment engint to bellhousing, not bellhousing to transmission!
lucky for me the main man pulling the strings around here just happened to have a 1uz bellhousing sitting around
now ive seen this a fiew diffrent places and its debated quite a bit but it seems to me the most easy most streight forward clutch setup is re-drilled flywheel, upgraded w58 cluch, stock w58 hub/bearing/fork assembily...
I know there seems to be a fear of the flywheel comming appart if you have it re-drilled but seems to me if you have it done professionally all your doing is taking 1mm off each hole in the pattern... it dosent look to me that that is enough material to compramize the flywheel unless its off ballance...
So my real quesion is how do i get the clutch slave cylinder to work with it?
1uz is an automatic housing... does this mean i have to drill and tap holes for the slave and cut a slot for the fork?
or am i forced to do a hydrolic throw out setup?

I see you answered yourself concerning the hydraulic setup. As for the flywheel, I think you are missing something. There is a difference between a redrill and a milled flywheel. The W58 would be a complete redrill as in the existing holes would be plugged and then a new pattern drilled. The crank on the 1UZ is an eight-bolt pattern. The W58 and R154 are both 6-bolt patterns. Do a search, there is some excellent flywheel information on here as to which flywheels will fit with only slight milling to their 8-bolt patterns.

 

[the ghoul]

I see you answered yourself concerning the hydraulic setup. As for the flywheel, I think you are missing something. There is a difference between a redrill and a milled flywheel. The W58 would be a complete redrill as in the existing holes would be plugged and then a new pattern drilled. The crank on the 1UZ is an eight-bolt pattern. The W58 and R154 are both 6-bolt patterns. Do a search, there is some excellent flywheel information on here as to which flywheels will fit with only slight milling to their 8-bolt patterns.

aaaaahhh, thus why people kept talking about MR2 flywheels....
hu,
have a stock w58 flywheel and an aluminum after market w58 on the way... was planning on plug welding them any how.... so as long as it will work ill do that (avoid spending money where i dont have to) but yeah ill look into it so at least i can have the info... thanks
and yes your right i was totally missing that point!

 

[the ghoul]

weird,
i cant seem to edit my posts...
well any how...
summitracing.com changed the link on me so the throw out bearing setup that i plan on using is the Howe Racing 82870 unit.

 

[cribbj]

Editing of posts is allowed only for the first few minutes after posting to avoid situations like: "I didn't say that!" or worse: "I didn't agree to that!"

 

[the ghoul]

aaaaahhh, thus why people kept talking about MR2 flywheels....
hu,
have a stock w58 flywheel and an aluminum after market w58 on the way... was planning on plug welding them any how.... so as long as it will work ill do that (avoid spending money where i dont have to) but yeah ill look into it so at least i can have the info... thanks
and yes your right i was totally missing that point!

seems im still missing the point;
can some one please lay out the options for me on flywheels...
I see phill and a few others make them, but i cant find any info on what pressure plates and clutch discs they use.
I also have seen people using the 1uz flex plate sandwiched under a flywheel (that has a smaller diameter so that the starter ring on the flywheel doesn’t contact)
I see the bad reputation for the 3sgte re-drilled flywheels coming apart.

Basically what i want to know is;
#1 if i get the w58 flywheel plug welded and re-drilled will i need to use the flex plate sandwich approach?
#2 who makes the safest flywheel that uses an off the shelf pressure plate and clutch disc? what pressure plate and what clutch disc?
#3 is there any safer DIY alternatives than the 3sget re-drill?

I swear ive searched like crazy and have not found any solid info. I just keep getting lost in a haze of confusion...

also going to pose the same question in drivetrain...

 

[milisakeracing]

seems im still missing the point;
can some one please lay out the options for me on flywheels...
I see phill and a few others make them, but i cant find any info on what pressure plates and clutch discs they use.
I also have seen people using the 1uz flex plate sandwiched under a flywheel (that has a smaller diameter so that the starter ring on the flywheel doesn’t contact)
I see the bad reputation for the 3sgte re-drilled flywheels coming apart.

Basically what i want to know is;
#1 if i get the w58 flywheel plug welded and re-drilled will i need to use the flex plate sandwich approach?
#2 who makes the safest flywheel that uses an off the shelf pressure plate and clutch disc? what pressure plate and what clutch disc?
#3 is there any safer DIY alternatives than the 3sget re-drill?

I swear ive searched like crazy and have not found any solid info. I just keep getting lost in a haze of confusion...

also going to pose the same question in drivetrain...

Yeah, I can see the confusion. Drop the idea of using #1 in your list above. This is the most unsafe idea that has been listed. Although I have not searched, I have never heard of the flex plate being sandwiched in between the flywheel and crank, this also sounds like a bad idea. Most who have decided to make their own have either taken the ring off of the flexplate and sweated it on to the flywheel or have taken a flywheel with the correct outer diameter ring gear and ground the correct chamfer on the teeth.

#2 - Someone else can answer this. I do not have an answer for it since I used a milled flywheel.

#3 - Check with SuperRunner. I got mine from him and it was a flywheel with a slightly smaller (larger?) 8-bolt pattern that had the pattern milled in order to make it fit. It was also drilled, tapped, and pinned for use with the R154 pp and clutch. He also did some for the W58 pp and clutch.

 

[the ghoul]

thanks for the info
I looked into superrunners stuff and i believe if i remember correctly he was using an early pickup flywheel for a base.
and, also as i recall most all toyota's use the same spline pattern so If he does a r154 setup that would prolly be best (bigger diameter if i also recall correctly)....
darn
more searching to do...
thank you though.