Where is the "ultimate" 1UZ thread"? Need to qualify Ross piston comment

[4000GT]

I needed to modify my post and qualify why my engine builder mate hates Ross pistons so much... I had might as well post here

Clearances ae 4.5 - 5 thou where CP and J&E etc are around 2. This means they have protuding rings. Their tolerances just are not as tight or consistent as others seem to get.

They also are a lot more taper in the piston, which means they tend to rattle a lot when cold, though less when hot.

They also expand a lot more than other pistons.

Hope that helps.

 

[Lextreme II]

Can you supply us with some solid objective evidence? Every piston company design their pistons differently and that is what make them unique. As far as tolerance goes, its also depends on the customer's specs. Some what over size and some don't. I think your builder is only ONE opinion and he have very few experience with the 1UZFE engine (I am not saying he doesnt have experience building motors, but I am saying he have little experience building 1uzfe motors)

Secondly, personally I would not want to deal with JE. They suck bad. Bad customer service, lack of knowledge in our specialty pistons and not willing to work on smaller or individual. I attended SEMA 2004 and talked to CP and they don't seem to do much 1uzfe at all or even at that time have not done any.

Honestly, your builder is only ONE opinion. Every builder have their own favorite and preference parts. So bashing one company based on one inexperience 1uzfe builder is not a fair comparision.

 

[4000GT]

How do you know how much experience he has with 1UZ mtotrs?

Regardless of the custoers spec, the issues I mentioned are constant.

I have already posted an email from CP saying hey have made and continue to make 1UZ pistons.

I have dealt with J&E before and their service was excellent and their quality top notch I guess everyone has different experienes.

 

[Lextreme II]

I hope this thread will not be a flame but its leaning toward that way. Anyway from my personal experience. Just like yours, I had terrible experience with JE. At 2004 SEMA CP specifically stated that haven't made any yet at that time. They might have since then, but Ross still have years of experience making pistons for the 1uzfe, 2uzfe and 3uzfe.

JE customer service were just plain awful. The import specialist didnt know jack about Lexus motor (V8) and wasnt willing to help at all. Your engine might have lots of experience with other motors, but i doubt he has more a dozen on the 1uzfe.

 

[Toysrme]

JE is the low end of the middle tier of piston makers. That's why they're popular. Just good enough to handle some abuse & very cheap.
Just like Eagle... Eagle rods are just good enough to handle some abuse, and cheap.
That's why everyone on Earth uses JE & Eagle. They're cheap. They are both OK, but they are NOT top tier piston makers. Nor should they be treated as such.


JE is the Glock of pistons. Glock is the Honda of handguns.
That's all you need to know.

 

[jibbby]

JE is the low end of the middle tier of piston makers. That's why they're popular. Just good enough to handle some abuse & very cheap.
Just like Eagle... Eagle rods are just good enough to handle some abuse, and cheap.
That's why everyone on Earth uses JE & Eagle. They're cheap. They are both OK, but they are NOT top tier piston makers. Nor should they be treated as such.


JE is the Glock of pistons. Glock is the Honda of handguns.
That's all you need to know.

Toys, I always thought that the JE Pistons were top notch...Ross a close second....Hmmmmmm...

I also thought the Glocks were a good pistol. However, Luckly I chose to own the Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum snub nose ever so reliable six bullet revolver for home protection..(Loaded with hollow tip bullets to stop any intruder dead in their tracks). Toys, let me ask you this, what's the Ferrari of Pistols? Dessert Eagle maybe?

 

[Zuffen]

Probably Mahle.

They supply a lot of OEM stuff to the German industry.

Porsche will only use Mahle pistons.

 

[4000GT]

JE is the low end of the middle tier of piston makers. That's why they're popular. Just good enough to handle some abuse & very cheap.
Just like Eagle... Eagle rods are just good enough to handle some abuse, and cheap.
That's why everyone on Earth uses JE & Eagle. They're cheap. They are both OK, but they are NOT top tier piston makers. Nor should they be treated as such.


JE is the Glock of pistons. Glock is the Honda of handguns.
That's all you need to know.

Yeah I would agree with that, and add Ross as a lower tier product again.

 

[KazeSupra]

I think there's some misconceptions in this thread about JE pistons. The clearances for JE are correct, but only for one type of piston they make. JE can use 2 different types of materials for the pistons they make. One is a 4032 material. The specs for this material say that for sport compact applications (which are normally a smaller bore), clearances can be from 0.022" to 0.035", which is very low. The other material they use is a 2618 material, and the clearances are (again for sport compact applications for an apples to apples comparison) are 0.030" to 0.045". Why is this? It's the density of the material. The 4032 material is used for light to mid range horsepower applications, ~500hp. This is due to the fact that the material is not that dense. The denser 2618 material is for higher horsepower applications (600+), but is less drivable when cold due to more expansion.

See, all metals expand when heat is applied to them. How much they expand is due to the type of the material and the density of the material (which sometimes have a direct relationship with each other). Denser materials will expand more than less dense materials. I'm not going to get into why, as I'm not the thermodynamics major, but this fact is true nevertheless, and I'm sure any science/thermodynamics people that are on this board can back me up on this.

That all being said, I can attest for none of any of the manufacturers quality control or customer service. I'm just pointing out the facts as far as clearances go. I don't know what kind of materials other companies use either, only JE, but clearances are set for the same reason: expansion. Hopefully this clears up any misconceptions. If anyone sees anything I wrote and needs to correct it, please do so, but with factual evidence, as I have provided to you. If I can find it, I'll post the email I sent to JE about my pistons.

Chris.

 

[boostedtundra]

Ross Pistons

How about we ask Ross pistons to defend these criticisms about their quality. I am sure they have data that they will be willing to share.
How about a comment from JE and others

 

[jibbby]

Chris - Wouldn't denser material be less prone to heat expansion? I thought the stronger the metal the less it would be prone to expand, bend and or contract, and also break..... (hense forged pistons for strength)

I guess I was absent in school when this topic was dicussed......

 

[4000GT]

How about we ask Ross pistons to defend these criticisms about their quality. I am sure they have data that they will be willing to share.
How about a comment from JE and others

I would prefer comments from those who dont have a financial interest in the products! Such as my engine builder and others out their with affiliations.

 

[cribbj]

Hmmm, I've found that engine builders are some of the worst when it comes to giving "unbiased" opinions because they have their own liaisons and favorites with different suppliers and manufacturers. The three engine builders I've used in the recent past, all seem to be opinionated along the lines of who is giving them the best deals, rather than who makes the best components.

When asked about the merits of one brand over another, they either spout the same marketing BS that the manufacturers do, or else they resort to FUD to drive you away from one brand to the one that suits them. Let's face it, if you're building a $20K motor, and you want Brand X pistons in it, and your builder says "OK, if you really want Brand X, I'll put them in it, but you're on your own. Frankly you'd be much better off with Brand Y, and I'll stand behind them." What are you gonna do?

Unfortunately, the top tier of piston manufacturers such as KS, and Mahle are normally inaccessible to small tuners and builders, so we're "stuck" with the likes of JE, CP, Wiseco, Ross, Arias, etc.

FWIW, one of my past builders wasn't too fond of Ross for reasons similar to what have been written here, however this guy screwed up nearly everything he touched, so I can't say that I have much faith in his opinion of Ross, nor the credibility of his reasons.

 

[200sx-v8]

How about the Acl pistons then?
All Acl pistons are made by either Mahle or Ross.

 

[Zuffen]

ACL are made by Ross.

My attitude is the different makes of piston must be able to survive in race engines otherwise the manufacturer would be out of business.

Pretty simple reasoning but if a particular brand of pistons kept failing in race engines the word would be out very fast and the manufacturer would either have to fix the problem, and overcome the bad press, or start making suacepans intead of pistons!

 

[4000GT]

XS Turbo's seem to still be in business! There is always a place for the cheap player in the industry.

 

[bango]

I needed to modify my post and qualify why my engine builder mate hates Ross pistons so much... I had might as well post here

Clearances ae 4.5 - 5 thou where CP and J&E etc are around 2. This means they have protuding rings. Their tolerances just are not as tight or consistent as others seem to get.

They also are a lot more taper in the piston, which means they tend to rattle a lot when cold, though less when hot.

They also expand a lot more than other pistons.

Hope that helps.

Few things I don't get...If he has built 100's of engine,why use Ross now or had he always use Ross,?What end result was the Ross piston outcome?Did he ended up using them or scraped them?Had he ran an engine with them(Ross)in?Or just said F***it after the clearance issue..
Tis true that different engine builders have different opinions on pistons,I'll be interested to hear some results of actural Ross pistons in a "working "motor...Which Ross pistons were they? 8.5 to 1 CR?
cheers
PS don;t let that Ross river fever get to u mate..

 

[4000GT]

Few things I don't get...If he has built 100's of engine,why use Ross now or had he always use Ross,?What end result was the Ross piston outcome?Did he ended up using them or scraped them?Had he ran an engine with them(Ross)in?Or just said F***it after the clearance issue..
Tis true that different engine builders have different opinions on pistons,I'll be interested to hear some results of actural Ross pistons in a "working "motor...Which Ross pistons were they? 8.5 to 1 CR?
cheers
PS don;t let that Ross river fever get to u mate..

He doesnt use Ross at all now unless the customer supplies the pistons in advance and insists on using them. He "still" uses them in that way...he never recommends them and wont order them in for a customer as he doesnt want the responsibility of the rest of the build being compromised by using them, for a long time (a few years back now) there were not a lot of accessible options out there for people, its a different playground now though. Hope that clears things up for you. Ross dont do anything about rattling pistons as they are designed to do that...

 

[Zuffen]

e-solver,

You win.

I threw my Ross pistons out in the trash.

I'll probably run JP on your recommendation.

Of course if they fail I'll need to make a trip across the pond to talk about it with you.

 

[bango]

e-solver,

You win.

I threw my Ross pistons out in the trash.

I'll probably run JP on your recommendation.

Of course if they fail I'll need to make a trip across the pond to talk about it with you.

Err,now where is your trash bin again ? What night is it that trash gets put out round your way?OK..ok.JP pistons?You mean JE? or CP..onder: