Supercharger Setup

[Lextreme II]

Hello,

This is something interesting for all Lexus-Toyota V8 owners. Here is a poll for all of you. If you have about 1,600 USD budget for set of supercharger(head unit Only) Which supercharger would you like for a street driven application on a 1UZFE?

Here are the specs:

1. 9-12 psi
2. Street application
3. Stock Motor
4. Great power in all rpm

Please poll this thread and tell us the reasons why?

 

[skid]

I looked into supercharges several times for my SBC though have yet to install one.

I voted for the Procharger as the centrifugal style chargers with intercooler seem to have a much better bhp power out put per psi than the between the 'V' mounted options.

The procharger also has it's own oil supply which was again appealing over the Vortech.

The only downside on centrifugals appears to be less power at lower revs. However This can be a benefit (I'm guessing) as when on a steady cruise you can back straight off and get good economy and then when you need to get the most and are using the full rev range the charger can build the power up quite quickly as the revs climb.

Just my understanding. Please feel free to argue.

Mark

 

[Lextreme II]

I would pick Twin Screw if fabrication is not a problem. They run much effecient then root and have great lower end. The twin crew is almost like a centrifugal supercharger. Procharger also another great choice.

 

[skid]

I would pick Twin Screw if fabrication is not a problem. They run much effecient then root and have great lower end. The twin crew is almost like a centrifugal supercharger. Procharger also another great choice.

Bit dim today. Can you give me an example of a twin screw charger?

Also if it is so good, and much the smae I think of Procharger/Centrifugal, them why do so many manufacturers spec Eatons M90/M112 when they are in the spot light of the motoring press trying to out perform each other???

M

 

[88Alltrac]

I would pick Twin Screw if fabrication is not a problem. They run much effecient then root and have great lower end. The twin crew is almost like a centrifugal supercharger. Procharger also another great choice.

A twin-screw whipple is actually a lot more efficient (80%-85%) then a centrifugal. (60%-70% efficient) You get instant response, with top-end even better then most turbos can offer. I saw a real dyno from a newer cobra at 16psi. (http://www.mafterburner.com/Whipple_vs_Eaton.jpg) First was the stock Eaton mp112 roots-type blower, made good power and looked decent. Then when you see the screw on the same dyno screen, you see how much better it really is. It even runs cooler, no intercooler needed! It had over 450ft/lbs right off idle and went up steadily to 570HP at redline! The powerband looks like a perfectly tuned n/a engine with a shitload more power and torque. I'm gonna fabricate some manifolds for twin-screws, and use one on my own engine now. *drool* My shop may be offering the s/c and manifold as a kit in a couple months.

 

[Lextreme II]

An example of twin screw would be Kenny Bell's Supercharger. Its an upgrade to most Cobra owners.

 

[Pro]

twin screw are great but i can't afford one so the next best thing for me is the M112 - hence i voted for it.

 

[skid]

My shop may be offering the s/c and manifold as a kit in a couple months.

Could very well be interestd in this especially as the dollar is really week at the moment helping US exporters.

Please keep us all informed.

Cheers

Mark

 

[Zuffen]

Twin screw superchargers are a lot more complex to build than Rootes hence cost a lot more.

Whilst the chart at the top of this thread is "What would you fit" I think the answer would be different if the question was "If you were paying what would you fit"!

You may get a lot of "none"

Personally I would like a whipple but the cost of getting one onto my workbench at home is around the cost of my entire conversion, then I have to fit it and there's no parts or warrany back up in Australia for them.

 

[fugly]

I voted for the V2 S-trim
Reason being, easy to intercool and in australia having large distances to travel ( my closest drag strip is 350klm's away )you don't want to be crusing on boost as you would with a positive displacment blower.

 

[skid]

I voted for the V2 S-trim
Reason being, ...........you don't want to be crusing on boost as you would with a positive displacment blower.

Ah!

Bugger!

You may have hit on something that I didn't consider. Is the centrifugal much better economy wise than an Eaton or twin screw when cruising??????

I'm going to be using my car as a track day car and also a daily runner so low rev economy would be handy but high rev power a must.

Anyone got any data to back this up?

Mark

 

[Lextreme II]

centrifugal is like turbo setup and very easy to intercooled and very effecient. However, centrifugal would not give the low end type of torque you get from Root or TS.

 

[skid]

centrifugal is like turbo setup and very easy to intercooled and very effecient. However, centrifugal would not give the low end type of torque you get from Root or TS.

Hi Lex, thanks for quick response.

Yes pretty switched on to the different sorts roots/whipple/centrifugal now.

I wonder which would be the favoured consensus of opinion here? It will be in a 944 and aiming for low weight, ideally 1000kg as will be going for the ultimate 'club sport' approach ie ditching anything not required.

The car will be my fun daily commuter plus track day car. I need economy to make it realistic as a daily drive and power when on track.

I'm erring more towards centrifugal ... again! When I first investigated I chose this, then drifted towards Eaton seeing that they are easily available and cheap, and that an inlet manifold is available. Then I looked at a possible cheap Kenne Bell Twin Screw as the torque was much stronger and earlier but it isn't going to happen I think. Both give the lower down torque but in a lightweight car with 4 litre V8 am I going to miss it if I go centifugal?

Hmmmmm.....

Price wise centifugals are not cheap, even on ebay, where as Eatons are cheap cheap cheap in comparisson. Obviously Cobra and other owners are ditching them for upgrades to Whipples or centrifugals. Though to be fair they are the most in existance so logically Eatons would be the most on the second hand market place.

Zuffen has also just informed me I'd have to move the starter with an Eaton M112.

So.... for tonights homework.....

1 Eaton M112, cheap charger, new manifold needed, cheap but still a few $'s average efficiency and perfomance. Hassle moving starter.

2 Whipple Kenne Bell, Expensive! No intercooler required though fabrication of manifold and starter moving again? (I assume)

3 Centifugal (Procharger), Expensive compared to Eaton but cheaper than Twin Screw, can leave manifold, TB and plenum though would look at flow working them. Will need to fabricate mounting bracket. Efficient economy at low revs/half throttle, high efficiency and performance at higher rpm. (am I right???) Will need blow off valve.

So in a 1000kg car for track fun and street economy, which would you choose?

Discuss!

Mark
p.s. interested why your project went Vortech not Procharger? I know you listed reasons but I couldn't help thinking the Vortech wasn't the best performer? Would be interested to see if your bracket could be bastardised to fit a Procharger???

 

[88Alltrac]

Before you settle on a charger, drive a car with it. As far as fuel economy goes, anything causing parasitic drag to the engine is going to effect it. Some are more efficient and cause less of an impact then others. I decided to go roots along with turbo(s) for top-end. I even went out and bought a brand new MP112 for my setup but I think I am going to sell it for a whipple. They are not that expensive. They range BRAND NEW from $1000-$2000, larger ones being more epensive. I am poor as hell but think that sounds like a damn good deal for what they do. These are made to actally compress air (Unlike a roots) and do not need intercooling! Even if nobody else is interested, I am still going to offer bolt-on CNC machined intake manifolds, maybe even for the MP112. Maybe I can make one and get some more casted to bring prices down, the CNC maniolds are surrrreee purrdy though.

 

[88Alltrac]

centrifugal is like turbo setup and very easy to intercooled and very effecient. However, centrifugal would not give the low end type of torque you get from Root or TS.

For sure, to me it seemed like the centrifugal felt like it had turbo-lag because of the way it has to spool, just like a turbo. But once it spooled it was decent, I say if you are considering centrifugal, consider a turbo. I favor the roots over a centrifugal honestly. To each their own.

 

[quadcam boat]

Skid, you don't have to shift your starter you can run a jordy style manifold and sandwich an air to water intercooler in between if you want for both a roots and a screw blower. You only need to relocate your starter if you need to reduce the height of the blower setup to clear your hood. Also, most roots and screw blowers today have a bypass valve which bypasses air around the blower under cruise, light load conditions and reduces blower drag conciderably. some blowers have an electric air cond type clutch on the snout to remove drag completely under these conditions. If the car is a daily driver, you will love the low down torque and power that you will get with a roots/ twin screw. Cyntrifugals are like turbos, don't do much down low, but put everything in the higher end of the rev range- where you don't normally go for a daily driver. To me twin screw is the ultimate benefit of efficiency and power throughout the entire rev range. Cyntrifugals are earier to fit and intercool and good for max power, high revs . Roots are best value and have good power throughout the rev range, but aren't as efficient. Have a read in the fabrications section for jordy's manifold and have a look how his goes on. This works for both twin screw and roots.

 

[UTA LS]

I think everyone is forgeting the original twin screw, Lysholm came out with the first twin screw supercharger I know of. For my personal setup I am going with a twin screw, since I have quite a bit of experiance with eaton and whipple superchargers I have grown to love the low end torque of a roots type/twin screw supercharger and wouldn't give it up for anything. I guess I'll have to get some money together and tig up an intake manifold but it really doesn't bother me, pretty sure I can fit it all under the hood also.

 

[88Alltrac]

Lysholm even makes the Whipple chargers.

 

[turboandrew]

My vote is for the twin screw. I have an email out to kenne bell to see if they will sell the blowzilla 2.2 without a kit, charger only; so far no response. Otherwise, it's going to be the 2300AX from whipple (which is around $2300 USD with snout and pulley). Both should be good for 600+ rwhp easily. I am pretty confident I can fab up an intake that does not require relocating the starter.

 

[Lextreme II]

You can use Whipple Supercharger. They are not cheap.