Its EMS Time! cool!

[rivmasta]

Hey all, This weekend is 'mount 1uz into car' - the following week is 'adapt 20valve wiring loom to 1uz' cool fun.

Im fine with the wiring of it but have a few q's that I need to put it together.

Basic ignition system is bosch dual coilpack x4, bosch dual ignitors x2, EMS ECU, Magnecor leads. Its the suggested MoTeC wasted spark setup being controlled by EMS instead.

Dumb Question 1: Im running wasted spark so need to know firing order and what cyls to batch together.

DQ2: Timing signal for ECU comes from right hand dizzy? correct? (Havent actually followed the lead yet for no1 cyl)

DQ3: On the 20v signal is from a magnetic 24 tooth in the dizzy... Can anyone verify for me that for 1UZ its magnetic 12 tooth.

Its all good fun! any help massively appreciated.

 

[Damien]

I believe the timing signal comes from the 12 tooth wheel on the crank - the sensor is right down the bottom.

 

[cribbj]

Firing order is 18436572, so for waste spark the pairs are 16, 85, 47, 32

See pics below for other info

 

[cribbj]

Forgot to mention, all the references in the previous post are for the "old" style, non-VVTi motor, but that's probably what you have, right?

I'm curious if anyone has investigated changing the old style 12 tooth crank gear for the Ne signal, to the new style 30 something tooth gear? This obviously wouldn't work for people using the stock ECU, but it might be interesting to do for those of us with standalones, to improve the resolution of the system.

 

[rivmasta]

Cheers guys,

cribbj, could you email that doc to me? add is [email protected]

Cheers!
G.

 

[cribbj]

Garry, I'll email that file to you. Also I'm sure you're probably already aware of this link, but if not, there's a wealth of downloadable technical info on this site: http://www.autoshop101.com/autoshop15.html concerning Toyota's "way" of doing things. Highly recommended reading.

 

[rivmasta]

Any reason why you cant run the signal off the cam position sensor? it should be 24 tooth... will be looking into that in the next few days!

 

[cribbj]

Any reason why you cant run the signal off the cam position sensor? it should be 24 tooth... will be looking into that in the next few days!

The crank gear provides finer resolution, and I'm not aware of any 24 tooth cam gear & pickup setups. Cam pickups are used only to signal that #1 has hit TDC on its compression stroke, nothing more. It's a "sync" thing.

 

[The Witzl]

most toyota engines actually run the whole ignition system off a cammshaft..... 4AGE, 3SGTE, 2JZ, 7M, 1G, etc etc.....

... yes it doesnt have the accuracy of running the signal from the crankshaft, but there's no reason it can't be done

 

[cribbj]

Witzl, you're saying that the ECU triggers only on the #1 TDC signal from the cam sensor, then just "guesses" where all the other TDC's are, without benefit of the crank trigger wheel signal?

BS

Every Toyota motor built since TCCS came out (in the 80's) needs both the crank (Ne) and cam (G1 and/or G2) signals for its EFI and ignition. The engine won't fire unless both signals are present. This is mentioned in nearly every piece of Toyota technical literature.

Go to that link I showed 3-4 posts ago, and download all that stuff. It's really good reading and anyone who wants to become familiar with Toyota's way of doing things would be well advised to read it all.

 

[rivmasta]

We ran an EMS ECU for our 16 and 20 valve engines just off the camshaft. That definately worked OK, so we'll be doing the same with the 1uz.

both the previous motors were 24tooth magnetic - Im going to strip down the dizzy to ensure the 1uz is the same and if so exc - Im in business.

 

[KDog]

why???? and no it didn't work OK...just because the engine turns over doesn't mean its running OK.
Stripping down the dizzy isn't going to tell you anything. It doesn't have any sensors in it.
Set it up properly and the engine will run properly. I would have thought this was pretty basic stuff...........

 

[rivmasta]

why???? and no it didn't work OK...just because the engine turns over doesn't mean its running OK...
Stripping down the dizzy isn't going to tell you anything. It doesn't have any sensors in it.
Set it up properly and the engine will run properly. I would have thought this was pretty basic stuff...........

Take it easy - Im not an EFI guru, Im still learning as I go, and Im basing my setup on what has worked for me in the past (more by trial and error and talking to guys with not much more knowledge than me). And the 4ag worked fine - we handed out arse kickings to 20valves, sr16's, and b16's in that car when we ran the 16v, and ign system was uber reliable.

OK - youre stressing that rather than getting trigger and sync from the dizzy (as I did in my 4ag's) that I'll get better performance by wiring trigger from the crank angle sensor (if EMS can read its signal) and I guess using the dizzy magnetic pickups for sync? Assuming of course that there are 2 magnetic pickups in the dizzy for sync and trigger as per 4ag's. If there's not, great! Thats the info Im after!

Our EMS setup was:
Trigger Type Mag
Sync Type Mag
Trigger Edge+
Sync Edge+
Ignition Fire-
Cylinders4
Ign Type00
Trig/Rev24
Ignitors02
Lambda00
Inj Ohms04
Dwell3.5ms
I was planning on setting it up similarly (obviously with more cylinders and ignitors!)

Im not trying to appear intentionally stupid - Im trying to save myself some hassles down the track by gaining advice from those with more experience than me. Isnt that what this forum exists for?

*edit to make EMS setup readable*

 

[turboandrew]

There are no mag sensors on the dizzy. There are sensors near the cam gear, and one tooth on the cam gear(s). Are you running sequential injection?

 

[rivmasta]

There are no mag sensors on the dizzy. There are sensors near the cam gear, and one tooth on the cam gear(s). Are you running sequential injection?

Exc! thats what Im after!

and no it wont be sequential.

what functions do the sensors near the cam gear do? sync?

 

[KDog]

All the information has already been posted. Maybe reading through the thread again will help.

 

[rivmasta]

Cam gear pickups are used only to signal that #1 has hit TDC on its compression stroke, nothing more. It's a "sync" thing.

Got it.

Cheers all.

 

[turboandrew]

Ahh, that's what I suspected, no sequential injection. You can trigger on just about anything thats consistent then. Hell, throw points in the dizzy! Seriously, the cam gear tooth is probbaly enough for what you need.

 

[rivmasta]

We're going to use the 12 teeth off crank and sync off cam.

Then Im going to install an energy polarisor and go heaps faster. *snigger*

 

[KDog]

If your ECU has the capablility to do full sequential then use it.

Also don't forget to sprinkle the valve covers with fairy dust and snake juice. Also don't forget to fill you wires with smoke or failing that positively charged electrons.