Direct Injection?

[StiCk3]

I was flipping through motor trend today when the Audi R8 caught my eye. It's a sweet looking car, but when i saw the engine specs,, i noticed that the tiny 4.2L V8 (420 Hp) had a direct injection system on it. When i saw the little monster, i began to wonder if direct injection could be created for any other engine not running this setup.

So my question is: is there any chance to modify a UZ engine for direct injection setup? if done right it could deal out some serious Hp numbers for both NA and turbo applications. Any feedback would be great

 

[rms]

I was flipping through motor trend today when the Audi R8 caught my eye. It's a sweet looking car, but when i saw the engine specs,, i noticed that the tiny 4.2L V8 (420 Hp) had a direct injection system on it. When i saw the little monster, i began to wonder if direct injection could be created for any other engine not running this setup.

So my question is: is there any chance to modify a UZ engine for direct injection setup? if done right it could deal out some serious Hp numbers for both NA and turbo applications. Any feedback would be great

Why bother? It will not give you any more Hp.

 

[StiCk3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection

it would be difficult to tune the ECU for all three fuel modes, but the out come would be some awsome power numbers, not to mention better fuel economy.

 

[rms]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection

but the out come would be some awsome power numbers

Power output is determined by the amount of AIR v TIME consumed by the engine. Given the same air consumption an engine will deliver the same max Hp whether on carby, T/body, port or cylinder injection.

Direct injection can have advantages for economy, Nox, etc but will not give "awsome power no's", if it did I am sure F1 engines would have been using it long ago.

 

[mshawari1]

If you can modify the combustion room and install high compression pump with controller . Then you can run direct injection 1UZ.
I have seen in BMW site some info about that !!​

 

[Toysrme]

Direct injetion itself power output wise is extremely close to port injection.
Where direct injection get's relatively small amounts of horsepower gain VS previous systems comes from getting away with higher compression.
Power wise... Look alot of OEM's have been running 11.5-12:1 ratio engines. Hell alot of more sporty crate engines (read that as engines with a big cam duration so the effectice CR drops slightly) run 14:1+ & still operate on pump gas. DI is simply one more way for the OEM's to bump the "wide scale" compression ratio another point, or two higher than previously.

The biggest thing for OEM's with direct injection, is that they're able to also get away with much leaner air/fuel ratios & still have a meaningful & complete combustion. Just don't think that the differance between 14.7:1, 17.5:1 & 50:1 are shockingly great improvements between each other. They're not. Couple precent each step.




Since I know of noone that does a project on an unlimited budget. Things always come back to Price VS Performance to me. It's awesome & all yeah, but why go to the expince of a retrofit? If it didn't come with DI, why go to the effort to put DI on an engine?






I'd just get some water/alcohol injection going on. Bite the bullet & go with "alcohols". hell go turbo diesel if you want huge compression ratios lol

 

[StiCk3]

Power output is determined by the amount of AIR v TIME consumed by the engine. Given the same air consumption an engine will deliver the same max Hp whether on carby, T/body, port or cylinder injection.

Direct injection can have advantages for economy, Nox, etc but will not give "awsome power no's", if it did I am sure F1 engines would have been using it long ago.

yes you are right that the injection system itself is not the source of the power, rather the means to achieve it. First off, without injectors restricing the intake runners you could create a more direct path to the heads. the head can also be modified with the intake runners, but that could take a little too much moola out of the wallet.

Second the engine can run higher comp ratios without the risk of blowing something up. even turbos can run some higher ratios. more "squish" equals more "boom"

the injectors aren't the sole source of power for the engine. It does give one more headroom to increase the power numbers.




damn Toysrme, beat me to it!!:damnit:

 

[StiCk3]

If you can modify the combustion room and install high compression pump with controller . Then you can run direct injection 1UZ.

I have seen in BMW site some info about that !!​

could you post the link for this site? just like to see it and compare thx:rambo:

 

[mshawari1]

I can't find what i see before but check this:

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/index_nar...nce/phase_4/experience.html&prm_action=theme5

 

[StiCk3]

I can't find what i see before but check this:

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/index_nar...nce/phase_4/experience.html&prm_action=theme5

hmmmm.. not bad, but to get the same setup on a UZ you'd have to remodify the head design completly. I was thinking that the injector could be placed on the side of the combustion chamber rather than the top.

 

[Toysrme]

v6/v8 pics.
where is there room for an injector?

 

[StiCk3]

^^what about tapping some holes on the intake side of the enigne block?
Mazdaspeed6
View attachment 5406
notice the nice smooth, straight intake ports.

 

[mshawari1]

^^what about tapping some holes on the intake side of the enigne block?
Mazdaspeed6
View attachment 5406
notice the nice smooth, straight intake ports.

That will be like the regular multi injection system !!! ​

 

[StiCk3]

^^ yeah but without the first set of injectors sitting in the way in the intake manifold. im talking about injectors just under the intake valve inside the combustion chamber.

 

[Toysrme]

Then buy a 2-stroke lol!

 

[turboandrew]

Don't the new Toyota V8's have direct injection anyway? Why bother modifying the older 1UZ's when it's probably cheaper to get a used, newest gen motor.

I do happen to think the direct injection can get you more HP (just a little) because you can inject fuel after the intake valve has closed -you are not displacing incoming air with fuel like you do with a port injection when filling the cylinder with air. Now having said that, I think the new Toyota motors have 2 injectors/cylinder, one direct, one port, so you can probably not inject all the fuel you need at WOT with just the direct injector.

 

[Toysrme]

yes, all of the xx-fse engines are direct injection with dual vvt-i & ACIS-3

some versions are dual injection for emessions, some are direct only.

 

[StiCk3]

Don't the new Toyota V8's have direct injection anyway? Why bother modifying the older 1UZ's when it's probably cheaper to get a used, newest gen motor.

I do happen to think the direct injection can get you more HP (just a little) because you can inject fuel after the intake valve has closed -you are not displacing incoming air with fuel like you do with a port injection when filling the cylinder with air. Now having said that, I think the new Toyota motors have 2 injectors/cylinder, one direct, one port, so you can probably not inject all the fuel you need at WOT with just the direct injector.

Yeah the idea is impratical on the engine and the wallet, but i just had some inspiration and had to ask. Im never going to do it in a lifetime(i want a 3UZ btw) but the concept of direct injection intrigues me. I just like to toy with ideas.

Back to injection, could it be possible to convert the newer motors to full direct injection?

 

[Anaema]

not unless you have ALOT of green.