Another 1uz-fe into Commodore - n00b questions

[Damo]

Hi all, I must say firstly that this forum has so far provided me with truckloads of useful information on my planned conversion. But in the process, I think i have overwhelmed myself with the amount of information here and am confused.

I have a VK Calais sitting here begging for some work. I have a couple of questions, which have probably already been answered in some form or another.

1. Currently the Calais has a 5.0L V8 converted to run solely LPG, this motor will be ditched obviously. My first question is engine mounts, do they need relocating?

2. With the wiring of the computers etc, i understand there shouldn't be too many wires external to the motor that need to be connected to get it running? I think this is my biggest concern.

3. Still undecided on wether to run the stock auto, or go for a manual box (like a supra 5 speed). I know about the Castlemaine Rod Shop bits. My concern is with the auto not shifting thing and the ECT.

4. I probably wont be doing any massive mods to the engine, being in NSW, what requirements should i expect in terms of registration? Does it require engineer certification?

5. Lastly, what about the steering column, will this need modification in anyway?

Thanks a bunch guys, rock on!

Damo

 

[Grega]

hi damo,

wanna have a yarn with vh 1uz dude on here. he's got his sitting in the VH engine bay, the commodore engine bay didn't radically change until the VR, so yeah no difference there.

this would make a nice conversion i reckon. been thinking about it myself. VK Calais are a nice car to begin with.

1. you will need custom engine mounts. and i'd suggest a custom gearbox crossmember also. depending on the 1uz you get good chance you will need a custom sump also (unless you get a front sump setup)

2. Get a Crown ECU with seperate ECT computer for the auto. Only way to go.

3. Speak with KDOG - run the auto as a tiptronic style setup (this is what I'm going to do - the autos are very good - not like your traumatic)

4. It will have to be engineered as the car did not come out with a Lexus V8 - not sure what the requirements will be speak with an engineer.

5. I doubt it.

Have fun.

 

[Zuffen]

Damo,

Defineitely get a Crown half cut for what you want. Have a look at the posts from people who purchased an engine only wanting everything from ECUs to Igniters. Those little bits missing now will add up to hundreds of Dollars later.

The only problem you will have with he Crown is the mid sump. You could try to source a front sump, buy a CRS front sump or look at modifying the mid sump to a front sump. Some milling and fabrication will be required but you will end up with an alloy sump (don't count the tin oil pan) which must relate better to the Alloy engine than steel when it comes to expansion rates.

You should only need to connect around 12 wires to make the car run. To get the dash running may be a bit harder but I know Holden would not have done anything sophisticated with the sensors on its engine so it should be straightforward.

The car will need engineering and it must run a cat (or cats) plus the original ECU and airbox. Otherwise it has to be structurally sound.

Easy should be running on Monday, it is a long weekend!

 

[Damo]

Hehe, long weekend my bum, i have to work over it!

Thanks guys for your responses. I was thinking along the lines of a crown half cut anyways. The one thing i had forgotten about was exhaust. I'd love to run extractors and a big pipe, but by the looks of it, this could cost as much as the damn halfcut! Using the standard headers, what sort of mods would be required to hook up to existing exhaust?

 

[Zuffen]

The half cut should come with the exhast as far as the back of the trans (mine did).

Both sides of the engine join under the drivers feet. It souldn't be too hard to run a system from there.

I have headers on mine and they were a mongrel to fit as I had to cut them up to go in and they cost around $600.00.

My Exhaust will cost around $2,000.00 by the time it is finished.

That's $600.00 for extractors, $150.00 to modify the extractors. $600.00 for hiqual Cats, $600.00 for pipework. I supplied my own mufflers which will be replaced once the car is engineered.

 

[Damo]

I had a thought, i wonder how feasible it is. Pleez excuse my stupidity you can laugh at me if u wish

The current motor already has a set of extractors & big pipe, sooooooo, what about a cut & graft job? Like I am thinking, take the 1uz headers, cut the pipes off em, then cut the 308's extractors at the mounting bracket and with a bit of heat and bending, mebbe mate the two together? Possible? I haven't a clue. OK, you can stop laughing now.........

Also, another ques, what the hell is a Celsior? I've seen halfcuts for these approximately the same price as a Crown, and I think they may even be front sump (which is good yea?).

 

[Peewee]

Celsior is a front sump, but will have intergrated engine and trans ecu's, thus forcing you to use the auto box.

In regards to the extractors, don't forget that the 1uz is a LOT wider around the heads, and a LOT of work will be required to fit your extractors.
That said, its not impossible, and is a possible solution.
But check the firing order of the 2 motors, different firing orders require different extractor setups.

And I'm guess that the VK was a carby from factory?
Are you keeping the LPG for the 1uz?
If not you will have to convert the car to EFI, (get all VK Calais EFI 6 stuff), and do a fair amount of wiring swapping.

 

[Zuffen]

Damo,

You're dunnydore headers are currently hrow away tems.

fit the engine and try to adapt you old headers.

If ya don't try ya won't know.

 

[Damo]

Peewee - yea it was a carby job from factory, but my brother-in-law had a IMPCO gas conversion installed when he bought it. It's now got this weird looking "thing" sitting were the carby should be. So if I don't run with this LPG gear, does this make the conversion process that much more complex?

My 2nd car (the one i actually drive now) is a VK commodore too (cept tis only an executive) but has the efi 6 motor. This car is slowly dying and if needed could become a donor car for bits and pieces if needed. Is this what u mean peewee? I dont know yet if the calais even has its orginal fuel tank in it still.

With the Celsior front cut, if it means running the stock auto, that wouldn't faze me too much at this stage, as it may be a means for keeping total costs down, as converting to a manual would be tripling the cost i reckon. So considering they are cheaper than Soarer cuts and around the same price as crown cuts, would they be the way to go if available (in terms of the sump configuration and any required modification)?

 

[Damo]

O yea, forgot to mention, the 6 cyl EFI VK i drive is currently setup for dual fuel, so.......yea.

BTW Zuffen, i can't throw nothing away!! Besides, that old 5.0L may just yet be sold to help finance my halfcut purchase!!!

Or, I could fit that into my current VK, Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........................

 

[Grega]

damo. try and adapt the headers. me and my mate did this with my 4AGE conversion in my TA22 adopting the 2T headers. worked ok.

the thing that sits where the carby should be, is it, on top of the carby with the air cleaner off to one side OR has it replaced the carb in its entirety? (i've seen a VK 308 with one of these style conversions before - if you take the air filter off the top of it looks like a little japanese house of some sort - kinda hard to explain.

if your 6 cylinder EFI VK is setup for dual fuel, then, odds are it uses a little ring before the throttle body - as well as some electronics around that. might be an idea to utilise that...

(there are several things you can do with gas, most dual fuel setups use a gas ring which has a supply of gas coming from the convertor, with, either an electronically controlled tap in that supply reading off TPS and O2 sensor for closed loop operation or just a ball valve - the actual ring itself is just a venturi style diffuser idea. nothing special really)

hope this helps.

 

[Zuffen]

Why retain the gas setup?

If you buy a half cut you will have everything (except the cats) to do the conversion.

You will need the Toyo air filter, the Toyo ECU and Cats. That should get you engineered with little to no bother.

Why make your life hard by trying to integrate the LPG, which will only cost you lots more.

As far as wiring and changes needed for EFI they are simple.

You will need to connect a dozen wires (I did it so it must be easy) and add an EFI fuel pump, A VL EFI pump will work well and that's about it.

If you stay with the Toyo trans you will save a bundle. I spent $7,000 getting the 1 UZ-FE into my Rover but if you use the stock trans you should do it for around $4,500.00, including the half cut.

It sounds like you are inclined to give anything a try so you wll get there and you will be able to stand back "I did that"

Go for it!

 

[Damo]

In terms of the headers and such, I'll just wait till I get the actual cut and then me & my dad can have a real good look to see if its a feasible solution.

Hmmmm, a japanese house? I've never seen a Japanese house so I dunno about that!! Actually, from what I remember of it, it looks like a UFO!! Or even sorta like a gas bottle regulator. I think it has replaced the entire carb, but I cant be 100% certain.

The thing is I never really thought about running the gas setup (straight or dual fuel), and dunno whether to really add that in or not. Peewee just has me worried by saying I have to convert the car over to EFI? Eh?

 

[Damo]

Zuffen, thats what I'm thinking, keeping the gas setup wasn't really at the forefront of my mind at this stage.

As for the trans, well everyone keeps saying the stock auto is a good unit and i'm probably more inclined to stick with it. I love manuals, but that can be looked at further down the road when funds are replenished after the initial conversion

 

[Peewee]

You car was carby when it came out, so it has a carby fuel tank, no fuel pump etc etc.

When putting an EFI motor in, you have to have an EFI fuel tank, fuel pump, fuel lines etc etc.
But since you have a donor car, just swap everything over, its the easiest solution.

Unless of course you plan to run dedicated LPG, inwhich case you need no swapping of tank and pumps.

 

[MaxPower]

VL 6cyl fuel tank, pump and lines is the easy and cheap option if u dont want to pull apart the VK.

 

[Zuffen]

Another fuel tank option is retain your stock tank and use an external VL/VN fuel pump.

Your existing tank will have the required fuel return line and charcoal canister line.

You will need to run a power feed to the pump.

On my conversion I swapped from dual carbs to EFi and simply added a fuel pump and two in-line fuel filters. Simple s that.

 

[mycarhasposessedme]

What about the surge tank?
Are you running without one Zuffen?
Dont get me wrong it'll work, but sooner or later without it you will starve the pump. Even a momentary starvation will at best stuff the pump and at worst cause an engine lean out and bang! bye bye engine.
I would not recommend running EFI without one under any circumstances.
Unless as suggested you use a fuel tank from a efi donor car which has a factory built in surge tank.

 

[Grega]

actually a VS tank back will fit in the VK/VH - no issues there.
remember though the pumps are in tank. zuffen VN's did not have external tank pumps (unless they were either V8 OR had the 90 litre touring tank) - VL's had the external bosch pump also (reportedly same as JE camira - although different part number). the EFi tanks from the late commodores also have inbuilt surge tanks (if you can call em that) - one external wouldn't be a bad idea...

also the EFI lines from a VS back car will fit in your VH/VK making it easier.

don't discount the idea of LPG though. i'm not.

 

[Damo]

oh no, i've started a war!!! hehe :O

k, so the basic thing i'm getting here is if i run petrol its a good idea to get an efi tank and associated bits from either my vk, a vl or other similar model (altho' i dont think my wife would appreciate me pulling apart her VS 5 speed ). I'm not discounting gas just yet, in fact as i said earlier, with the calais on dedicated gas at the mo', i dont know whether the original fuel tank is still there, or whether they just wack the gas tank in the boot, (like with my dual fuel vk). Tho' if all the gas bits were there, my mechanic who i'm on pretty good terms with is a gas man too, so he could probably convert the 1uz to gas i reckon. O its all good fun.

So general consensus is if I dont rip into the vk, getting tank, pump and lines from a VL is way to go?