Does anyone know if metanol will eat up a standard set of injectors? I'm 95% sure it will chew up some stuff like the solenoids inside, or where the pintle seals up against the body. Also, if someone knows how to size injectors for alcohol i'm looking at making about 650hp on the high side naturally aspirated at high RPM (9000+).
Alcohol compatable injectors?
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The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
?? Semantics. It appears as if you haven't failed to see. And yes, it will be an issue.
Sometime between yesterday and today you did a 180 on your approach. But, if you still have a race only car, and you still think alcohol is best suited in a race car. Stick with the alcohol! Tub that thing and come out to California when you're done so we can run'em.
If California wasn't a couple thousand miles away i'd be all for it, but $4 a gallon of gas is a bit much to drive out there.
I just don't see how cyl washing would be an issue with alcohol as long as it is tuned right and the rest of the motor is built for alcohol use. Yeah, it does have a low (6-4:1) air fuel ratio for stoich but at that a/f ratio is when it chemically will burn the best. I have a few friends with quite a bit of experiance with methanol and ethanol, I will make sure to clear this up with them. I will also ask one of my dad's co-workers about the cyl washing on top fuel cars since he is working for the Menards/Colorfast Top fuel team in his spare time. Not saying you are wrong about the alky, but I'd rather hear it straight from the source.
Love your Corolla btw, its my fav body style Corolla.
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Try these guys www.kinsler.com They've probably forgotten more about alky fuel systems than most of us will ever know.
Disregard their "retro" website and email contacts, and give them a call - I'm sure they can help you find what you're after.
John
Disregard their "retro" website and email contacts, and give them a call - I'm sure they can help you find what you're after.
John
SprinterTRD
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Any injector can be used with methanol as long as you flush the system with petrol.You will need a injector 2.2 times greater flow than petrol.
So for a 8 CYL engine to get 650HP on petrol with plenty of margin use 500cc injectors, for methanol you will need 1100cc injectors
So for a 8 CYL engine to get 650HP on petrol with plenty of margin use 500cc injectors, for methanol you will need 1100cc injectors
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FYI
Yes alcohols will kill the fuel system outright from nose to tail.
Forget alcohols for fuel. They're expensive & methanol is highly corrosive in contact with Aluminum. (Not to mention the stuff is pretty nasty to be around)
If you need more fuel, be smart & give it that much more gas. Add water injection if you must. At which point, if you're going to mix an alcohol to lower the freezing point; it should be ethyl, not methyl, or isopropyl.
Methyl, obviously, should be avoided less you can tear your engine apart on a semi-regular basis, while isopropyl remains explosive in the gas dominated environment (Ya you heard it right, neither methyl, nor ethyl will burn in a gas dominated enviorment.) Isopropyl remains above it's lower explosive l imit & while combustion consumes oxygen that the same amount of gasoline could use to create several times the power.
In short... Don't use alcohols for a billion reasons. & If you mix an alcohol with water for Water injection, it needs to be ethyl alcohol.
Even then I don't like using alcohol in water injection if you're not in danger of it freezing. It's just a pointless.
Yes alcohols will kill the fuel system outright from nose to tail.
Forget alcohols for fuel. They're expensive & methanol is highly corrosive in contact with Aluminum. (Not to mention the stuff is pretty nasty to be around)
If you need more fuel, be smart & give it that much more gas. Add water injection if you must. At which point, if you're going to mix an alcohol to lower the freezing point; it should be ethyl, not methyl, or isopropyl.
Methyl, obviously, should be avoided less you can tear your engine apart on a semi-regular basis, while isopropyl remains explosive in the gas dominated environment (Ya you heard it right, neither methyl, nor ethyl will burn in a gas dominated enviorment.) Isopropyl remains above it's lower explosive l imit & while combustion consumes oxygen that the same amount of gasoline could use to create several times the power.
In short... Don't use alcohols for a billion reasons. & If you mix an alcohol with water for Water injection, it needs to be ethyl alcohol.
Even then I don't like using alcohol in water injection if you're not in danger of it freezing. It's just a pointless.
I'm well aware of the issues of methanol chewing up gas tanks/lines/pumps etc... but I didn't know if the injectors would suffer the same fate. The only reason I want to run methanol is for the sheer fact that i'll be running stupid high compression 13-15:1. This is a drag race car only and should only be driven to the track about 15 miles away raced a few times and brought back.
I just looked at Sunoco's website and they reccomend 112 octane for up to 15:1 static compression. Looks like its starting to be a better idea just to run this motor on gas, even though methanol does make more power for the same ammount of air.
I just looked at Sunoco's website and they reccomend 112 octane for up to 15:1 static compression. Looks like its starting to be a better idea just to run this motor on gas, even though methanol does make more power for the same ammount of air.
Nath
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I was told Indy Blue injectors are built to handle Methanol. They pop up on ebay a bit so for more info do an ebay search or a google search.
I was told you could have two maps, a race map and a petrol flush map programed into your ecu. Nice and simple once sorted I would imagine.
Nath
I was told you could have two maps, a race map and a petrol flush map programed into your ecu. Nice and simple once sorted I would imagine.
Nath
The Flea
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I'm pretty sure AEM has a gas flush standard on their ECU. If not, run a small amount of castor oil in the alcohol. I've known numerous guys running in the 7's on alky in drag only cars who swear by castor in the tank. This works for blown, and injected.
Most states carry fuels that already have 15% ethanol. When it hits, E85 will be 85% ethanol.
As long as you have a good flush, you'll be fine.
I'd be more concerned about the amount of washdown you'll have from the low stoich ratio on the mixture. If you're somewhere at 5-6:1 you'll need to change oil more regularly. The oil gets full of fuel. Ever see a top fuel car change the oil after every run? It looks like puke yellow. No transluscence, it's completely opaque after one run!
IMO, if you're doing a road car you're best served by running race fuel. If not, you'll have to carry so much freaking alcohol and you'll add tremendous weight you don't need. VP C16 will make the power you want and control the high static compression issues. It has a tight evaporation curve and starts nicely even if it's cold. It burns fast enough for most race bikes. I've run C16, Sunoco, and Unocal 118, and the VP is the most consistant.
Most states carry fuels that already have 15% ethanol. When it hits, E85 will be 85% ethanol.
As long as you have a good flush, you'll be fine.
I'd be more concerned about the amount of washdown you'll have from the low stoich ratio on the mixture. If you're somewhere at 5-6:1 you'll need to change oil more regularly. The oil gets full of fuel. Ever see a top fuel car change the oil after every run? It looks like puke yellow. No transluscence, it's completely opaque after one run!
IMO, if you're doing a road car you're best served by running race fuel. If not, you'll have to carry so much freaking alcohol and you'll add tremendous weight you don't need. VP C16 will make the power you want and control the high static compression issues. It has a tight evaporation curve and starts nicely even if it's cold. It burns fast enough for most race bikes. I've run C16, Sunoco, and Unocal 118, and the VP is the most consistant.
I fail to see how cyl washing is an issue, stoich should be a 100% complete burn (only ideally), Top Fuel is a different story since they run god awful rich, mechanical fuel injection isn't nearly what electronic can do. I have a little experiance with E85, although I wasn't too happy with it, mostly becase the sanctioning body provided contaminated fuel, but also because we had severe issues with corrosion inside the combustion chamber. Extreme pitting on the pistons would occur arround 100-150hrs of run time. :disappoin I just really think methanol is the way to go for race only vehicles since it does make more power than gas for the same ammount of airflow.
But, I think i'll stick to sunoco or VP 112-114 octane since I am going to drive this car on the street. I need to be able to atleast drive it to the track so I can run a few passes in it, I don't have a trailer or even know anyone who has a truck that can pull a trailer.
In case anyone is wondering, I am building a little 72 Datsun 1200 Coupe that's getting a full tub after I get done fixing the rust. 1uz is sitting in the corner of a shop waiting on me to get enough cash together to make some serious power out of it.
But, I think i'll stick to sunoco or VP 112-114 octane since I am going to drive this car on the street. I need to be able to atleast drive it to the track so I can run a few passes in it, I don't have a trailer or even know anyone who has a truck that can pull a trailer.
In case anyone is wondering, I am building a little 72 Datsun 1200 Coupe that's getting a full tub after I get done fixing the rust. 1uz is sitting in the corner of a shop waiting on me to get enough cash together to make some serious power out of it.
The Flea
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UTA LS said:
?? Semantics. It appears as if you haven't failed to see. And yes, it will be an issue.
Sometime between yesterday and today you did a 180 on your approach. But, if you still have a race only car, and you still think alcohol is best suited in a race car. Stick with the alcohol! Tub that thing and come out to California when you're done so we can run'em.
I did the 180 after weighing all the benifits of alcohol compared with the fact that I just don't have the money to do rebuilds as often as it will need it.The Flea said:
If California wasn't a couple thousand miles away i'd be all for it, but $4 a gallon of gas is a bit much to drive out there.
I just don't see how cyl washing would be an issue with alcohol as long as it is tuned right and the rest of the motor is built for alcohol use. Yeah, it does have a low (6-4:1) air fuel ratio for stoich but at that a/f ratio is when it chemically will burn the best. I have a few friends with quite a bit of experiance with methanol and ethanol, I will make sure to clear this up with them. I will also ask one of my dad's co-workers about the cyl washing on top fuel cars since he is working for the Menards/Colorfast Top fuel team in his spare time. Not saying you are wrong about the alky, but I'd rather hear it straight from the source.
Love your Corolla btw, its my fav body style Corolla.
