Twin turbos or supercharger?

[andrew k.]

I would like to get the comments from anyone interested. I have a 1UZ from a 1996-1997 Celsior swapped into a 2006 Toyota 2wd truck. The stock engine was 3.0 turbo diesel rated by Toyota at 163 hp, more like 95 at the wheels. The rear end is a 3.48 LSD stock and the transmission currently is a 5 speed manual Toyota R151 with stock gearing (4.313 first gear).

I believe the 96/97 1UZ compression ratio is 10.4 Now the question. I am considering either twin turbos (Garrett T-25's) with intercooler or an intercooled supercharger, looking for comments pro and con concerning both systems.

I will keep the boost at 6-7 psi. My projected cost for either is about the same, 6k USD.

I suspect the stock transmission is good for about only 300 hp and will probably end up installing a built Ford C-4 automatic with a Gear Vendors overdrive. Any comments or suggestions welcomed.

Thanks

 

[jibbby]

Being that it is a truck, you may want the lowend grunt so I would probably suggest you supercharge it if that's the case...No lag what so ever unlike the turbo's...If it is a racer only then twin turbo that baby and haul arse..

The turbo's may cost you less though if you know what you are doing..Those Eaton charges are bank......

 

[andrew k.]

Twin turbos or supercharger

Jibby Thanks.

I wanted to go with a supercharger but some others have suggested twin turbos. In either case I don't think the tranny will hold up to more than about 300 hp or so. Anybody know the rating on this box?

 

[4000GT]

I know a guy running 500WHP in a R151.

 

[andrew k.]

twin turbos or supercharger

e-solver,
Thanks for the post. That is good news to hear. I used a Dellow bellhousing and a one ton clutch with a brand new stock R151. Any personal preference for twin turbos or a supercharger on a stock 1996 1UZ in a Toyota truck?

 

[4000GT]

Well for me, I am going twin turbos if pipe permits of big single otherwise. Turbos are much more fun and "cool" and typically seem to have better top end potential. The SC may make more "sense" in a truck to get a slighty better lower torque curve, but turbos are so much more cool. haha

 

[jibbby]

E-solver - big superchargers/blowers can be pretty cool too.... The only problem with root chargers is the power to run the charger is provided from the engines crank pulley...So inturn you get power loss immediately from the engine but since the root charger is driven off the engines crank there is no delay or lag...Engine turns the charger turns... Just like N/A power.. That's pretty cool if you ask me...

Exhaust turbo's are mounted and run off the engines exhaust, they are more efficent then root chargers but since the exhaust is running the turbo there is hesitation and lag..The engine turns then blows the exhaust which then spools the turbo's (delay)... The Boost comes on hard and not an even curve like a charger...

Again in a truck or 4X4 were instant torque in most benificial the supercharger system would be the way to go...

In a speed car or truck the turbo's would perform best for you, and be cool and fun too...


It really depends on what kind of power you are looking for in what kind of vehicle in my humble opinion...

Oh the r151 and r154 trannies can handle good power...

 

[andrew k.]

twin turbos or supercharger

Thanks for the comments. My truck is my daily driver and being fun to drive would be a good thing. All the bits and pieces for twin turbos are available here in country for me already. To go to a SC would mean I have to import (and pay 30% or more in fees).
I have the room in the engine bay for twins and all the fabrication would be easy enough. I am happy to hear the transmission can hold up to some decent power as well. Seems like it will be easy enough to get 400 hp with the twins at around 7 psi boost.

Any other comments or suggestions out there?

 

[stevechumo]

Andrew,

There're actually 2 types of superchargers and I guess you already knew this. The first type is the Eaton M90 (root type), which will give you instant power. The advantage of it is its simple setup, ecomically for a good used one (about $200 USD on Ebay), and within the range of 350 bhp. Richwood has the manifold for this setup for about $700. The total $$ would be around $2,000 USD. You'll still have $4K left for fun.

The second type is the centrifugal supercharger, similar looking like the turbo. On average, it boosts slower (more lag) than a turbo. Its advantage is even more simple than a root type setup. However, the new supercharger itself could cost you at least $1,500 USD. If you can find a good used one for 1/2 price, then it's a good choice (3rd choice between these 2 options).

I'd definitely go for a twin T25 turbo. I'm 99% positive this setup will give you instant boost. The only downside is it fabrication. Each T25 is relatively small and it's run on the Mitsubishi Eclipse with no lag. The Mitsu has 200 bhp in stock form. I've even used this T25 & T3 (slightly larger than T25) on several Honda & Acura and they gave me instant boost. With the 1UZ 4.0, you'll have no problem whatsoever for up to 400 bhp (twice displacement) as comparing to the Mitsu or any 4 cylinder Honda.

The lagging also depends on how you setup for the A/F. If you do it wrong, doesn't matter what FI you use, you'll still have some lagging. Most people that have lag is because they run a big single turbo that gives huge top end power. For low boost, don't worry about the intercooler. Just try to tuck the air filter pod away from the engine as much as possible.

 

[andrew k.]

twin turbos or supercharger

Stevechumo,
Thanks. Great information. Because of where I am in the world I have very high import duties to pay for anything brought in. Anywhere from 30% to 300%. I really like the idea of twin T-25's. Fabrication is no problem. I have an industrial machine shop at work to play with.
As I said before, the engine is a 96-97 with 10.4 compression. The boost I intend to run is not more than 8psi. Stock injectors with an Autronics ECU are already in service as the truck is runnig N/A. I am pretty sure I can retain both of these when I add FI.
I have seen that some of the other forum members used the T-3 but the T-25 looks like it is perfect for my application and driving (bad) habits. My goal is to have something responsive enough to sh*t and git to safely get around some of the traffic here.

Thanks again for some great information.
Andrew k.

 

[jibbby]

Good luck with your twin turbo setup...There are many threads on TT projects on this forum to help guide you on this project...Just use the search function and you will find... Sounds like your truck will have some balls when you are finished...:Eyecrazy:

 

[Nick M]

There is also the twin screw supercharger. It looks like a roots blower, but has a pair of screw type lobes in the housing. This blower gives you nearly roots type response, while being very close to a centrifugal blower for effeciency. Kenne Bell, among others, manufactures them. Due to the fact-much like turbos-that they work very well, they are expensive compared to the roots blower.

 

[JustenGT8]

If TT looks like it'll be substantially cheaper for you then go that way. Even if you are going for off road low end grunt (and you haven't really described what you want) a TT setup won't be far off an SC. My TT setup delivers full boost (13psi) by 2500rpm and has more low end than i can find traction for Top end is huge an more than a match for an SC setup.

 

[Jake Breyck]

Andrew,

There're actually 2 types of superchargers

There are accually 3 types. your forgetting lysome superchargers. or twin screw.

also on a truck with lower gearing turbocharging can be very lagless, and sometimes kinda nice over a supercharger becouse the turbo doesnt really do anything if is no load but start working hard as soon as load is applied. superchargers dont do this.

 

[andrew k.]

The gearing I have is 3.583 LSD with 4.313, 2.33, 1.436, 1.0 and .838. I am going to add twin turbos (Garrett) with an air to air intercooler. Shooting for June 2nd completion.

 

[andrew k.]

Justen,
My goal is low boost and high low end torque. This is my daily commute vehicle. Driving to and from work should be fun when this gets done. i will post my dyno numbers when it is completed.

 

[stevechumo]

There are accually 3 types. your forgetting lysome superchargers. or twin screw...

Yep. I completely forgot about this type. It's because I only looked at the root type & the centrifugal type 99% of the time, although the twin screw is setup somewhat similar to the root type.

 

[Lextreme II]

Andrew,


This is the setup you want: http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6839&highlight=richwood+supercharger

 

[andrew k.]

Lex,
Thank you for the information to the link.

Andrew k.

 

[greybeard]

Yep. I completely forgot about this type. It's because I only looked at the root type & the centrifugal type 99% of the time, although the twin screw is setup somewhat similar to the root type.

yeah right, and overhead valves are somewhat similar to side valves. And pushrods are somewhat similar to overhead cams.