Turbo for 400hp 1UZFE?????

[svsgt1]

Hey, I have a crazy car that I purchased. I believe there are some links to it on your site. The Saker SVS GT. (www.sakercars.com www.sakermotorsport.com and www.sakermotorsports.com) I have the first street car in America and I had it made with a 400hp N/A 1UZFE V8 engine. I had custom head work, cams, intake, and exhaust to achieve the 400hp at the crank. There is a simple cam timiing change I coudl do to make it 430hp but this question regards a turbo setup. Oh and if you want to see my car and videos check out this site. www.adamstyles.com/car.htm (I'm a musician so I used my website to post pics for my brother when he was in Iraq.)

Anyway, I would like to run a turbo in this car. (I know I'm crazy as 400hp in a 2000 pound car is already insane.) I would like to run low boost so I can keep the stock compression ratio. Something like 6-8 psi. My questions are

1) What type of Turbo do I need to look for. More specifically, I know many turbos can make 6-8 psi but will I need something that flows more air as my engine is already making 400hp and I would like to achieve something around the 500-500hp mark with 6-8 psi. So what is the specs of the turbo that I woudl need to achieve this or what turbo would be able to handle this?

2) How close to the beginning of the exhuast shoudl the turbo be placed? I ask because there is a perfect spot for the turbo in my car but it is not very close to where the exhuast tubes combine. I have a fairly long header design so does this affect the turbo in anyway? Will the exhaust gasses not be hot enough to power the turbo effectively if I have it to far from the beginning of the header? Is there a general distance that should followed?

3) Do I need to have the turbo connected to all 8 exhaust outs or can I hook it up to just one side of the engine and use only 4 exhaust outs. I know some cars have twin turbos with each turbo hooked up to each bank of exhaust pipes, but I want to only run a single turbo as I only want low boost?

Thanks guys. Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[Lextreme II]

If you want Single. It all have to depend on your engine bay setup. You can have two banks come in and join into one. A Picture of your engine bay will help a lot.

 

[svsgt1]

There are a ton of pictures of my engine bay on my website. www.adamstyles.com/car.htm

Hopefully this will help. I do have a cross-over in my exhuast system. This helps reduce noise and makes things smoother. Should I put the turbo there or would that be too far away from the beginning of the exhausr or is that irrelevant?

 

[svsgt1]

Some pics have the exhaust fitted and some don't. Obviously the ones without the exhaust fitted won't do you much good. Scroll further to the bottom of the page past the videos to find these pics.

 

[The Flea]

Sweet car!
I looked at the pictures and you actually have some space to work with.
If it were me, I'd put a good size single right where the two merge behind the block. You have v-band clamps off of your collectors which will make it nice to adapt a crossover pipe to your turbo. They could merge with a "pair of pants" joint to the flange. The primary tubes seem a little longer than average, but I've been to countless races and have seen many combinations. This wouldn't be anything really too unordinary for a single.
I wouldn't run the turbo on one side only. I'm sure there's a good reason no one else has done it with great success.
Choosing a turbo has more to do with you as the driver than anything else. Do you want large flow at the cost of long spooling time or less flow and boost on demand. It looks like you're into both standing start performance and some road course stuff. Honestly I'd say your chassis is more inclined for the twisties. I'd look at your gear ratios to tell you what RPM band you'll be in (when you're racing) to determine what you can play with as far as minimum rpm to generate a the flow for a specific pressure ratio. All of this stuff is connected.
Lextreme has put up some good info on this.
I'd err on the larger size and just get a bigger wastegate to control the large amount of hot flow that you want to by-pass. You could run more than 8 psi intercooled on race gas.

 

[svsgt1]

Thanks, well that clarifies where I can locate the turbo and if I should connect it to both sides of the engine exhaust or not. Thanks. Since this is a street car more then a race car I don't want a turbo that is not street-able. I'm looking for something that is reliable and gives low boost 6-8psi. So with that said I would like something that spools up quickly. I think if I wanted higher boost then I would sacrifice spool time and drivability for that, but since I am only looking for low boost a quick spool time should be achievable. I don’t want to run to high of boost because I don’t want to change the compression ratio, plus running higher boost would mean much more upgrades in the transmission and fuel system. And I think 500-550hp in a 2000 pound street car is more then enough. I also wouldn’t mind keeping costs down, I don’t want to spend $5000 on doing this project. So what would be a good turbo for this application? Would the T70 be more then what is needed? How quickly does it spool? Is there anything smaller that would spool quicker but still be able to provide me with 6-8psi to get 500-550hp?

Thanks

 

[Lextreme II]

U can do couple of ways. The easiest would be a single turbo where the two exhaust pipes almost meet. The distant is little long and would be slight lag. However, this would be pretty much a bolt on job.

The second choice is slightly harder but worth the time and money. U can make a twin headers and locate the twin T3 right next to the exhaust header. I am sure there would be enough room and run a Top Mounter Intercooler above the intake.

If i have the money, time and space, i would go with the twin T3 with Top mount intercooler.

 

[svsgt1]

I'm thinking of using a T61 single turbo. It seems like it would be good for my low boost application but still be able to provide the amount of power I will be making. What do you guys think of this turbo in this application? It should spool faster then the T70 correct? Let me know what you guys think.

Adam

 

[Zuffen]

My two dollars worth is don't turbo if you want low end grunt.

Supercharge the car.

There are a number of bolt on systems available at around US$4,000 here in australia.

Check our the ALSC Site.

If you supercharge you can leave your exhaust alone and sumply bolt on the blower.

 

[svsgt1]

Supercharging was my first thought. But in reality it would be harder to add a supercharger then a turbo in this car. There really isn't any room on top of or in front of the engine for the supercharger. It may be posisble (doubtfull!!) to fit a supercharger on top of the engine but it would be a problem running the belts because my radiator pipes run to the side of the car and really limit the space to run the belts for a supercharger. In all honesty, it would be much easier to run a turbo then a supercharger. (Even though it is usually the other way around.) I'm not looking for low end grunt, but on the other hand I don't want such a huge turbo that it takes forever to spool up. That why I"m thinking of using the smallest turbo possible and still have it give the air flow needed and be efficient. The T70 is a nice unit but is pretty big and can push more PSI then I will want to run. If I run 6-8 PSI I will make 500-550hp and that is enough for me. I don't need 700-800hp and I don't want to spend the massive amounts of money it would take to upgrade everything else in the car. (tranmission, fuel system, etc) The T61 seems like a good choice, but I just want to make sure that it will flow enough air for my application. (I think it will but any help/suggestions would be nice.) Do you think iy willspool up by 2700-3000 rpm? And is Master Power and Garret tturbos he same thing or are they just using the same naming convention?

 

[Lextreme II]

Here is some compressor maps for the single turbo. http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714

 

[JBrady]

Your boost threshold will be a function of the turbine side dynamics coupled to the air flow response of the chosen compressor. A quick spooling turbine will make boost sooner with ANY compressor. Actual boost response on a given engine is a function of function of compressor design COMBINED with turbine side dynamics.

Here is a page listing a number of compressor maps.
http://www.turbocharged.com/catalog/compmaps/fig9.html

7.5psi = apx 1.50 pressure ratio (the left gradient of graphs). 500hp = apx 50 pounds per minute air flow (the bottom gradient of the graphs). The idea is to match the compressor to the flow/boost goals and aim for the highest compressor efficiency. Of course you need to stay above the surge line (the diagonal dotted line to the left of the efficiency islands).

The problem... going strickly from compressor maps... is that your goal... 500hp at 6-8psi (1.40 - 1.55 pressure ratio) will take a VERY large compressor to fit the efficiency window.

Here again is a situation where my theory on the effects of engine flow on a compressors efficiency comes into play. If you take the map for the 60-1 compressor and look at 1.50pr and 50lb/min you are way off of the peak efficiency. However, if the engine moved the map over just 10lb/min it would work pretty well and 15lbs/min would put it on the edge of peak efficiency. Hmmm.... what is really going on...

 

[svsgt1]

Well after much calculation (much thanks to you guys and www.turbocalculator.com) I decided that the T61 would be a great turbo for my application. The T70 seems to be too much as it provides better eficiency for higher boost applications and the 60-1 won't have enough efficiency for the flow requirments I need. But the T61 will give at least 70% efficiency from about 3200-6300rpm. Although it will only give 65% at 7000 rpm I figured this is at the rpm limit and it really won't spend too much time up there considering it is a street car most of the time. Thanks for all your help guys. I am definietly thinking about doing this project. It seems cheap enough and will provide great power. Now all I need to do is get some 440cc injectors. Anybody know where to get these for the 1UZ-FE that will be a direct replacement?

 

[Trvln Nalzmn]

The GT40R Garrett turbo is on the new Ford XR6 in NZ. It runs 6-7 psi into a 4 litre motor. Going by the compressor map its very similar to the T61. Its also ball bearing and more efficient but its going to be over twice the price probably.

http://210.48.99.14/1_pics/gt40rcompress.gif

 

[Lextreme II]

T61 is a great turbo for your application. GT40 is the turbo of choice if you are willing to spend two times the money. I think GT40 is about $1,200 and Master Power T61 is about $650. With your V8, T61 from MP will spool very fast.

 

[svsgt1]

Great, then the T61 it is for me, the GT40 is just to expensive. I have seen the T61's for $650 or so but I went on Ebay and there are people selling them for $400. It looks legit to me as he seems to have a lot of them and he has a high rating. He says they are new in box. Anyone have any experience with this particular seller. I buy things off ebay all the time for cheap prices so I'm pretty confident that in the system as long as you do your homework before hand and don't buy anything that looks to shady. The close up picture of the Master Power serial number plate has all the right numbers and looks like it is legit.

If I can get the turbo for $400 and an intercooler for another $400 then I would definitely do this project as it will probablly cost me less then $2k for the entire thing. Well thanks for your guys help. I will post any pictures and stuff as they come along. Its going to be a while before I even start this project as my car is off getting some more goodies. Maybe by next year I wil have the project started. If you guys have any suggestions on anything else (Turbo timers, Electronic Boost Controllers, Blow Off Valves, Intercoolers, Etc.) then please feel free to share your thoughts and ideas. Thanks!!

 

[Lextreme II]

You should contact our sponsor. Turbo Performance System (TPS) http://www.lextreme.com/boosted.html and Joe will help u out. Send him an email. I got my turbo from him and he support all of his products. I called for my defected seal and he send another one right away. Ebay seller would not give that type of support. I would stay away from those ebay seller. Secondly, some turbo sold on ebay are not actually as they state it is.

Good luck and keep us updated...

 

[Thermactor]

My two dollars worth is don't turbo if you want low end grunt.

Supercharge the car.

There are a number of bolt on systems available at around US$4,000 here in australia.

Check our the ALSC Site.

If you supercharge you can leave your exhaust alone and sumply bolt on the blower.

My blower setup cost about US $1500!