T56 Vs. V160

[Lextreme II]

This thread will create some heat. I know there are a lot of loyal fans of both camps. I would like to compare from a non-biasis position. Both of the trannies are in performance cars. As far as I know in the US only the Supra (MKIV Turbo) have this transmission and I think BMW too. However, for the T56 lots of domestic performance cars have it (Camero, Cobra, Vets, Fire Bird, Vipers and few others)

I think the V160 is rated at 361 ft/lbs of torque and the T56 is rated at 450 ft/lb of torque. I have read few articles about Supra making 1000 hp using them and have no problem with it. However, I think torque is more important then hp in this situation and also at what rpm torque is peak is also very important too. For example, most American V8 have large amount of torque at low to mid vs. Supra most torque is at mid to high. Stress are more the torque is at lower rpm then high. I personally think this is why the V160 still surviving with 1000 hp Supras. However, it would be interesting to see a V160 in a Chevy 350 and see how much punishment it will take before breaking.

The UZFE is another story, most of the torque would be in the middle of the RPM and I still wonder how would this awesome transmission would hold with with the 4.0, 4.3 or the 4.7 liters since the torque curve is different from the 2JZGTE.

As for price, you can get a very nice brand new T56 for about $2,200. However, with about $2,200 ($4,000-5,000 brand new) you can only hope for a no garrantte used V160. I want your thoughts on this.

As for after market support, the T56 have many camps and the prices for rebuild and parts are alot cheaper. So, what are your thoughts on this?

Article of Interest: ( I am still trying to find some articles about the V160)
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0405_trans/

The first picture is the V160 and the second picture is the T56

 

[turboandrew]

Can you explain why you think stress is more at lower rpm vs higher rpm, given torque remains the same?

 

[capn]

I was going to use a T56 for my northstar, because it came with super low gears (.50 in 6th) and that would have worked out perfectly with my 4.10 rear end.

the picture you put up for the t56 looks more like a t5
this is a T56 with an alternate bellhousing on it

Over here in the states D&D is a great specialist with the t56, heres there site:
http://ddperformance.com/index.html

 

[Lextreme II]

Nice Find! I have heard of DD Performance before. They have great products. I love the T56 Viper version. Its rated at 650 ft/lbs. The price is up there, but still cheaper then a brand new V160. As far as I can remember its only about 11,000 Supras with 6 speed were sold in the US. I dont have the number of T56 we used in domestic cars, but i would not be suprise the number perhaps 10x?

 

[ProWedge]

How hard would it be to fit on the 1UZ ?

 

[Edwin_S]

You guys must know about Ryan Woon... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKTdm0ZG6vM

This transmission gets so much beating, and still it holds out. So i'm pretty sure the V160 is nearly indestructible

 

[cjsupra90]

They are both really good tranny's. I think though that I would have to side with the T-56 and it being a stronger tranny. The other reason for my siding with the T-56 is that it is a double over drive where as the V-160/161 is a single overdrive and there for unless you use a very tall final drive gear, they are not fun to drive in traffic (constantly shifting).

 

[ProWedge]

I think the two of them have almost the same dimensions . If i knew for sure it could fit as easly as the V160 to the 1UZ i would go with a T56 just cause of the money saving factor V160 are rare as hell and expensive .

 

[Lextreme II]

One of our members is making an adaptor plate for the T56. It should be out soon.

 

[TeckniX]

Just wondering if there was any update to this adapter plate-
I'd love to run the T56 with my 2jz

 

[KazeSupra]

I think though that I would have to side with the T-56 and it being a stronger tranny.

Can I ask what you're basing this on? I've seen more T56's giving out than V160's...

 

[cjsupra90]

Can I ask what you're basing this on? I've seen more T56's giving out than V160's...

Most tranny's blow due to bad driving habbits.

Getrag only rates the V160/161 at 375lb/ft

Tremic on the other hand first of under rates thier tranny's quite a bit and rates the standard T56 @ 450lb/ft and the Viper T56 @ 550lb/ft.

Now yes, I know that the Getrag has held a lot more then 375lb/tq, but at that same time, you are going to see a higher number of failiars with the T56 vs. the V16X just simply because of production numers. There are probably more Camaro's alone with T56's then there are number of V16X's produced by Gatrag, and that is just one car, now add in the firebird, the GTO, the Corvette (even though it is a redesign being it a transaxel more or less) cant leave out the Viper (but again a slight redesign (different matterial for added strength)), the Aston Martin V12 Vanquish, DB9, and IIRC the DB7 also, plus TVR used them also but I dont recall which car, oh yeah, the Cobra (mustang) used them for a year or two, and also Holden used them in the Commodore and the Monaro (GTO here in the states). I'd bet that the production rate between the two (V16x vs. T56) is probably 30:1 or more, so yeah your going to see more broke T56's Vs V16x's.

Just to give you a strength factor for the T56, GT1 vipers running in the 24hrs of Le Mans run stock out of the box T56's and the trann'y tent to last the entire 24 race and produce between 600 to 700 lb/ft of torque. Not many MKIV produce that much torque and the 1 or 2 that I have seen produce that much have tosted the V160's that were in them, and yet the T56 is still living after 24hrs of being beat to hell (non stop for the most part) at that same tq.

So yeah, i fully believe that the T56 is stronger then the V16x's

 

[TeckniX]

So anyone know where we can get some adapter plate, that would allow us to mate the T56 to a 2jzgte engine?

Thanks

 

[JustenGT8]

They are both really good tranny's. I think though that I would have to side with the T-56 and it being a stronger tranny. The other reason for my siding with the T-56 is that it is a double over drive where as the V-160/161 is a single overdrive and there for unless you use a very tall final drive gear, they are not fun to drive in traffic (constantly shifting).

That's interesting as i rate the double over drive as a total waste of space. A 6 speed should be close ratio with 1:1 5th or why bother? If you just want a cruiser then just stick to a 5 speed as performance isn't what you are after.

That said the Tremecs are tough and i am well happy with my TKO600 and specifically chose that over the V160 as it's twice as tough and with my torque a widely geared 5 speed is just fine.

 

[cjsupra90]

That's interesting as i rate the double over drive as a total waste of space. A 6 speed should be close ratio with 1:1 5th or why bother? If you just want a cruiser then just stick to a 5 speed as performance isn't what you are after.

That said the Tremecs are tough and i am well happy with my TKO600 and specifically chose that over the V160 as it's twice as tough and with my torque a widely geared 5 speed is just fine.

Like I said, unless you can get a relatively tall final drive gear, they are not fun at all to drive in traffic. I know of a local guy by me that has a V160 in a MKIII Supra with a 2JZ and being that the tallest gear avalible is a 3.727 with out having one custom made, 1st gear is pointless, he never uses it, not even at the track. Where as with the T56, he would have 1st through 5th pretty much the same as 2nd through 6th with the V160 and yet still have another gear for highway cruising and not guzzling fuel. In 6th with the V160, he is turning 3000rpm to cruise at 75mph, were as if he had the T56, he'd be at around 2200rpm at 75mph.

Actually, if you look and calculate the ratio spread, with the exception of 1 or 2 varients of the T56, it is actually a closer ratio box then the V160 is.

 

[R-Jay]

I'm about to purchase another tko600 for my v12 seeing as i sold my first one thinking i couldn't use it....

If the purchase falls through, i may consider a t56.

 

[cjsupra90]

That's interesting as i rate the double over drive as a total waste of space. A 6 speed should be close ratio with 1:1 5th or why bother? If you just want a cruiser then just stick to a 5 speed as performance isn't what you are after.

That said the Tremecs are tough and i am well happy with my TKO600 and specifically chose that over the V160 as it's twice as tough and with my torque a widely geared 5 speed is just fine.

Oh, yeah forgot to add this in my last post. I cant agree more with you about the TKO600 and it actually just so happens that your 5th gear is the same as most T56's 6th gear (.63 IIRC). Also, turbos like wider gears anyways, helps them spool better.

 

[TeckniX]

I'm about to purchase another tko600 for my v12 seeing as i sold my first one thinking i couldn't use it....

If the purchase falls through, i may consider a t56.

Just wondering what v12 this was ( sorry I'm lazy to search post that explain your swap, if this is one) and also how hard it was to make the TKO to that engine.

If they make adapters for the 2jz, I'm also game for one of them.

Ahh.. I just need a replacement 6-speed, that's not as expensive as the v160. There has to be something in the GM line up... haha

 

[R-Jay]

toyota v12 1gzfe. No, there is no off the shelf kit to fit a t56 behind a 2jz, but there is one for the tko600. My tko will have a custom bellhousing to mate it to my engine.

 

[Lextreme II]

My 1998 Cobra came orginally with T45 (Ok tranny with 5 speed) and I swap it out to T56 and the 6th gear was almost useless to me. Unless I got over 120 mph otherwise, I have to downshift to 5th inorder to make my Snake move. Cruising the 6th at 65 mph is almost non responsive when gas. However, T56 with 6 speed does sounds sexy, but functionally the TKO600 is way better for street application.