Project Thread Supercharged Supra

[MitchP]

John,

I'd recommend going twin turbo for the second engine. You'll free up quite a bit of power by not having to spin the blower and won't have any belt slippage issues like last time. Additionally, if you were to go back to the stock intake manifold, the cylinder to cylinder air distribution will be much better which will increase power and reliability as each cylinder is pulling (err, pushing) it's own weight. As it is now, the distribution is far from ideal with the blower manifold that's on there. (It would also make my job of tuning a bit easier)

Also, you have all the logs up to the time we headed to the airport. The time stamps on the log files are pacific time, so the last log was taken at 4:11pm. I don't change time zones on my computer when I travel.

 

[JustenGT8]

A man after my own heart there Mitch

 

[GT8 Sorpresa]

So tomorrow, my other machine shop is going to use this new tooling to enlarge the spring seats in a "junk" head that I use for mockup work, then I'm going to test fit some of these new springs I just received in and see how they look & work.

They're going to cut 1 1/16" (1.0625" or 27mm) OD seats for one cylinder, and 1 1/8" (1.125" or 28.5mm) OD seats for another, and in the third, I've told them to cut whatever size they want, but to go as deep as possible to see how much metal we have before we hit the water jacket. This should be useful information for those who need to cut a deeper spring seat in order to run a high lift cam and avoid coil bind.

Hi John
Any update on the spring seat cutting, it would be reinsuring to know how much metal is below the spring seat.
Thanks
Steven

 

[cribbj]

Steven, I've got the figures at home, but won't be back until mid-December. I'll dig them out as soon as I get there, and will post them up.

IIRC, they couldn't deepen the spring seat as much as I asked because the seat cutter ran into the guide at about 0.200", but don't take that as gospel until I get you the measurement.

 

[GT8 Sorpresa]

Thanks, I will wait, I've been married 26 years, patience is compulsory. But even at 0.200" (5.08mm) it still gives quite a range to work with.

Has anyone found a inlet valve that works with 1NZ buckets and standard base circle cams, maybe eg Ford Focus 2.0L inlets at 97.55 in length, http://www.lextreme.com/valve-specs.html sounds like its in the ball park? or NIssan V spec QR25 though its almost 36mm in diameter.
Any ideas?
Cheers

 

[stevechumo]

John,
Did you have to pull the timing at all? And if yes, at what hp figure or boost the timing starts to be pulled?

 

[XR8tt]

Steven, I've got the figures at home, but won't be back until mid-December. I'll dig them out as soon as I get there, and will post them up.

IIRC, they couldn't deepen the spring seat as much as I asked because the seat cutter ran into the guide at about 0.200", but don't take that as gospel until I get you the measurement.

The guide can be taken out or it won't hurt to mill guide down alittle as you're going to have to clearance guide to retainer anyway if extra lift cam is used...TMK..??

 

[MitchP]

26 degrees timing from 3300RPM to redline under the following conditions:

21 psig boost
100% Throttle
111 F Air Temp
199 F H2O Temp
11.5 AFR gasoline equivalent on both O2's (0.78 Lambda)

Fuel was approximately 20% methanol and 80% C16 (by mass)

This ignition timing value resulted in best power and was arrived at through comparative dyno testing.

 

[turboandrew]

Mitch, how much HP was it making?

 

[MitchP]

Just under 500hp. Look further back in the thread and there's a curve John posted.

 

[stevechumo]

26 degrees timing from 3300RPM to redline under the following conditions:

21 psig boost
100% Throttle
111 F Air Temp
199 F H2O Temp
11.5 AFR gasoline equivalent on both O2's (0.78 Lambda)

Fuel was approximately 20% methanol and 80% C16 (by mass)

This ignition timing value resulted in best power and was arrived at through comparative dyno testing.

Mitch,
Are you familiar with tuning the new AEM F/IC 8? Can it be used on the SC400?

 

[cribbj]

Thanks, I will wait, I've been married 26 years, patience is compulsory. But even at 0.200" (5.08mm) it still gives quite a range to work with.

Has anyone found a inlet valve that works with 1NZ buckets and standard base circle cams, maybe eg Ford Focus 2.0L inlets at 97.55 in length, http://www.lextreme.com/valve-specs.html sounds like its in the ball park? or NIssan V spec QR25 though its almost 36mm in diameter.
Any ideas?
Cheers

Steven, I just remeasured and confirmed the seat cutter only managed to remove about 2.0mm before it hit the guide. So it wasn't 0.20 inches, but 2.0mm, and I have no way of knowing how much metal is left, short of chucking up a bit or a hole saw and drilling through each of the spring seats to see which one is thinnest (which I might do anyway, just to know, since this is a junk head).

On M/W injection, and on Justen's recommendation, I've been talking with Richard at AquaMist about his nozzles, and just had a 0.4mm nozzle and accessories shipped from the UK. Although it's not well advertised on their website, Richard makes these things modular, so you can have a choice of push-lok, hose tail ends, or -3 or -4 AN adaptors. I opted for a -3 AN fitting on mine, along with 25 micron internal screens. These are gorgeous little precision made nozzles with M6x0.75 female threads at the inlet, and M8x0.75mm male threads on their outlets. He also shipped me some M8x0.75 to 1/8" BSP adaptors (God Save the Queen), so I wouldn't have to try to tap M8x0.75 in my ally manifold.

I also called Kinsler Fuel Injection and ordered up a sample of one of their constant flow mechanical injector nozzles, drilled to 0.017" and it's very nice also, but in brass instead of stainless, and without any screens. It's more compact than the AquaMist and has a coarser 5/16x24 (God Bless America) thread that is better suited for threading directly into the ally manifold.

The AquaMist kit has an advantage from a modular point of view, but that's a double edged sword with cost and complexity. The Kinsler nozzle is simpler and does in one piece what the AquaMist does with three, so it's definitely more compact. The AquaMist kit costs around $35 per nozzle with all the fittings, screens, etc. while the Kinsler is around $15, with precision drilling and reaming as necessary for flow matching. So the tentative nod on specs vs price goes to the Kinsler.

Next step is to try both of them with my pump and see what sort of patterns they produce, although I'm guessing they'll be very similar. After all an orifice is an orifice, whether it's 0.4mm or 0.017"......

p.s. That's an inch ruler in the photo below, so the AquaMist nozzle with the -3 AN adaptor (but without the 1/8" BSP bushing) is about 1.25" from end to end, while the Kinsler nozzle is just under 1" end to end.

 

[cribbj]

I've just received a set of adjustable cam gears that M3Turbo made up for me, and their quality is really first rate.

We all know that vernier adjustable cam gears for the 1UZ motor are virtually nonexistant in the aftermarket, and even if they were available, they'd have the disadvantage of adjusting both the intake and exhaust cams together, due to the UZ's scissors gear arrangement.

This setup overcomes that disadvantage by providing three additional slots precision machined into the exhaust gear to give increments of 3, 5 & 7 degrees of adjustability in the exhaust cam, separate from the intake. This should be just the thing for degreeing in the 1UZ's cams and/or changing the LCA's. While it may not be quite as flexible as having a separate vernier adjustment for the exhaust cam, it's probably the only practical way to achieve any adjustment with the 1UZ's setup.

 

[scotturnot]

Very nice John. I had read someplace on the forum that someone had done that to a set or exhaust gears, I think I even posted on it, but I couldnt find the thread. I have a set of the front intake cam pulleys but nothing for the exhaust. What did those exhaust gears set you back?

 

[cribbj]

Scott, the price was rather high due to DHL'ing the cam gears back & forth between Houston & Thailand, but John (M3Turbo) indicated he'd be willing to do more if they were done as batches, or in a GB, and the price should come down a bit.

If there's some interest, we can start a new GB thread and I'll contact him to see what sort of group prices the Lextreme membership can get.

 

[SC400TT]

Scott, the price was rather high due to DHL'ing the cam gears back & forth between Houston & Thailand, but John (M3Turbo) indicated he'd be willing to do more if they were done as batches, or in a GB, and the price should come down a bit.

If there's some interest, we can start a new GB thread and I'll contact him to see what sort of group prices the Lextreme membership can get.

John, I would be interested in this...Although I would not make any changes now, I am working on completion so I can get her running, tuned and determine just how much HP, TQ and drivability I get from my current set up. I do know that I will be tweaking over the next year, so I do expect to make changes...

Ryan

 

[cribbj]

OK, new thread started here: http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?p=100496

 

[scotturnot]

Additionally, if you were to go back to the stock intake manifold, the cylinder to cylinder air distribution will be much better which will increase power and reliability as each cylinder is pulling (err, pushing) it's own weight. As it is now, the distribution is far from ideal with the blower manifold that's on there. (It would also make my job of tuning a bit easier)

John,
Do you have any ideas how to improve this on the manifold you have now? I am toying with a couple ideas and just wondered if you had any thoughts.

 

[cribbj]

Not really, Scott. The manifold needs either a variable obstruction (like an AtoW intercooler with higher fin density up front, and less to the rear) to discourage all the air going to the front, or some kind of divider plate to prevent it. Both ideas are fraught with faults, but they're the best I can come up with.

This isn't a criticism of the Richwood manifold - it's definitely the best compromise for a less than ideal situation, but it's more a criticism of the supercharger's output flange falling where it does (directly above cylinders 1/2/3/4). And as large as the SC is, there's no way it can be moved rearward for better centering, and still retain the clean & functional bypass valve setup. This may be why the Kenne Bell setups that use this SC have external bypass valves, located and plumbed next to the SC (and they look cobbled together, too)

Another alternative, for those who aren't concerned with hood clearance, would be to install a subplenum box between the SC and the manifold, and give this subplenum a centered outlet.

The best setup of all, IMO, would probably be to run the supercharger inverted as the TRD setups do, and blowing up into a plenum that then has 8 IR's back to the inlets.

Let's hear your ideas.

 

[Zuffen]

I'm running the same charger as John on the same manifold.

I've given quite a bit of thought to running a spacer to centralise the airflow.

I figure what you lose by way of the obstruction you make up with in better distribution and even power production.

That said I replaced a set of plugs in mine yesterday after around 100klm of use and they were all pretty even in their colouring so maybe it isn't as bad as we think.