Stroking the 1UZFE and 8 throttle bodies

[ToranaJudd]

Hey there guys,

This is only my second time posting but have been trying to learn as much as I can on the engine before starting up to much conversation. Well here is what I want to do. I already have a 1UZFE engine and stripped it down ( heads and inlet manifold off ). The rebuild was going to consist of porting and policshing heads, the 2JZGTE valve spring upgrade, a Haltech E11v2 computer, modified cam shafts and individual throttle bodies made by a company in New Zealand ( www.1uzquadcam.co.nz ). They use manifolds off the 4AGE engine which is 20 valve ( 5per cylinder, 4cyls ) and 1.6L capacity. Using 2 sets would add to a capacity of 3.2L and the 1UZFE being a 4.0L engine i can see that there may be minimal restrictions in the air flow. This i am not sure about this loss but will be asking the manufacture's about it. Secondly I wanted more cubes as I am going N/A. I had read a few tech articles about conversion for 1UZFE to go to 5.0L and 5.5L. The 5.5L got me thinking and for this to be done the 1UZFE block would need a BORE - 97.00mm and a STROKE - 93.00mm, this would give 5498.03cc. Seing the standard bore of the 1UZFE is 87.5mm the sleeves from a 2UZFE would need to be used and then bored an extra 3mm as they are 94mm. **UNLESS WE CAN GO TO 97mm FROM 87.5mm, which i think that a bore of 9.5mm is not possible.** Next problem we face is the stroke, seing as we need 93.00mm and only have 82.5mm a crank is needed. I have access to 2UZFE cranks, pistions and rods. These are only 84.00mm but with our bore and stroke combo we can still have our 5.0L ( 4965.96cc ). My questions are as follows:

--> Which crank is made at a stroke option of 93.00mm ??
--> Does the 2UZFE crank bolt straight into the 1UZFE block ??
--> What does resleaving cost ??
--> To what size is the largest bore on the 1UZFE sleeves ??
--> What other crank/piston/sleeve combo's have people used/investigated ??
--> Will I still be able to use the throttle body combo on an engine that is now demanding 1-1.5L extra of air ??
--> Does the 2UZFE crank require more space in the sump and block ( grinding reqd ? ) ??

Seing as access to the 2UZFE gear is cheap and brand new, it may well be a feasable conversion if bolting up it possible and resleeving is cheap or unessesary.

Thanks for your time,
ToranaJudd

 

[ToranaJudd]

...

Jesus. Second post and i have already scared you all off?!

Whats going on? All the tech guys on holidays ?



Cheers
Judd

 

[Zuffen]

OK I'll be the brave one.

To answer your questions in order.

1. No one makes a 93mm stroke crank. You can get one made for $5,000 or so.

2. From what I know yes it does but it gives nominal capacity increase.

3. Re-sleving costs depend where you are and how wealthy you look. I always wear clothes with my bum hanging out. That way it is cheaper.

4. Sleeves are very slim there is nominal room to bore them. You need to re-sleeve with a larger sleeve to do it properly.

5. There are a plethora of options open to you. People have looked and so should you.

6. The standard t/b wil struggle with a 20% increase in capacity.

7. The answer here is drop one in and let us know.

I suggest you do a few searches and also look at old posts. Most of your questions have been answered previosly.

 

[400ZED]

Go all out and get a crank made while you are at it get it made flat plane and get the cams mande to suit.
the 8 throttles will more than cope. if you want larger make up a set of slide throttles. not impossible with decent gear and time.
if i had a pile of cash that is where i would be looking. although i would keep the stroke down go for a bore and make powere through revs lots and lots of revs.
sorry but i can't give other specifics for the price of a new motor i can't justifying opening one up. ATM
What application are you talking boat speedway?

 

[COFFEE]

Toranajud,
From memroy i am sure i read somewhere that the sleeves in the 1UZ-FE are only 2mm thick.
Sounds very thin but i'm sure thats what i read.
If so i would imagine the 2UZ to be in the same vacinity, no chance of boring them.

Do a search on the net becuase i remeber reading a very in depth thread about this once.
Alot of info/ specs on both motors.

Regards

Stephen

 

[autronic]

ToranaJudd:

I did some research about this a while back, I will dig out my notes and post it
in a day or so.

 

[chrisman]

you also asked about the throttle boodies not being able to breath enough.. remember that on the 4age they came from, the redline is around 8500 (i think).. on the blacktop 4age, i think its in the 9000 rpm range.. while on the 1 uz, it will most likely be less,, so you may be close to maxing out the throttle body capacity,but should be ok.. that is unless you do go bigger stroke..

the throttle bodies from the 4age blacktop are a little larger,, so i would look into getting those instead of the silver top throttle boddies..--i am recaling from memory, so i may be mistaken..

 

[Lambo]

hi Chrisman, Maybe this is dumb question but if the size of the intake runner is say 30mm ??? how does a larger butterfly help, surely only so much air can fit down the runner.
I measured the mitsi 2.5l throttle body the other day it was 64mm wide and only 70mm deep, and it could be made to fit . and eight of those would look nice.
Regards
Lambo

 

[MWP]

hi Chrisman, Maybe this is dumb question but if the size of the intake runner is say 30mm ??? how does a larger butterfly help, surely only so much air can fit down the runner.

I would say 40mm max.
The TB only needs to be slightly bigger to account for the space the butterfly and axle in the TB.

Arent the 4AGE 20V throttle bodies around 40-45mm?

8 * 65mm throttle bodies is massive overkill and would make off idle throttle and cruising very difficult to control.

 

[chrisman]

a large throttle bodie and a runner half the size would make the air entering rty and change velocity in a small area..
you should try and keep the runner and throttle boddie roughly the same size.. --so the air entering keeps the same speed.. this aids in filling the cylinder..another important thing to remember is to try and have a large filtered area to draw air from.. although having 8 individual filters would look cool, they would start restricting air very quickly,, and that would affect performance greatly..
yes, the 4 age throttle boddies are around 40-45mm--this is a very common size for itbs-even for drag bikes..

 

[ToranaJudd]

...

altho i am not pursuing this pay anylonger due to the impossiblitys of taking my 1uzfe to 5.5L and recooping the same power/torque figues and money as a vortech will provide, i would still like to know more if you have the info Autronic, and i am sure others here would like to know as well.

 

[SCV8]

I recall that the port was (equal to a round)38mm in cross section, and considering that the throttle shafts would be taking up a little area, I'd want around 42-44mm. Add decent length(11-12.5 inch) runners with horns that flare to 50mm at the opening, and you'd have a great induction system for a torque peak around 5-6,000rpm, max hp around 7-7,500rpm.

 

[Lextreme II]

This might help on stroking www.lextreme.com/3uzblock.html

 

[Vssc400]

Question:

If I was running 400rwhp on stock injectors i would be running the injectors at 100% at WOT. if you were to get HP fuel pump (like MKIV supra TT's or walbro 255lph HP pump) would it not be sufficient for the injectors to run @ 100% 2-3% of engine cycle?

 

[mycarhasposessedme]

No.
Never run your injectors at 100% duty cycle - to risky.

 

[SCV8]

Isn't 80-85% the limit?
I have no experience burning out an injector, but that it what I have been told not to go beyond.

 

[COFFEE]

Guys,
Whilst the inlet runners entry to the heads are not a nice shape to work out section area.
At the bolt up point of the runners and plenum the runners are round and a diameter of about 42mm was measured.
With saying this, a port could see these out to around 50mm ?
So the 4ag TB's would probably be the smallest option you would want to take.
Soemthing slightly bigger ( slightly ) for a stock motor would proabably be a better thing.

Regards

Stephen

 

[quadcam boat]

I measured the inlet runners to 45 mm from memory. may need on check on that measurement!

 

[SCV8]

That's assuming that it's a straight passage; it's not.
38mm is the cross section at the port on the early motors anyways.
That # puts the torque right at where the factory cars peak is.
Keep trying to convince me though, it's fun.

 

[COFFEE]

SVC8,
What do you mean " That's assuming that it's a straight passage; it's not "
I am using a 1UZ-FE from a 92 Limited Soarer.
I didn't measure it at the manifold to head connection which is wide and shallow,
I measured it at the point where the bottom half ( Runner ) and top half ( Plenum ) bolt together.
By eye this section area looks perfectly round and measured 42mm.
from this point to the plenum the section area only gets larger.
From that point to the head doesnt look to get any smaller either rather gradually change shape.

With all this said, there is still alot of meat that could be reoved from the whole lot, even at entry to the head.

So i make the comment that the 4ag TB's would be the smallest option i would personally use on the stock motor.

Regards

Stephen