Standalone ECU Stand Alone (Part II)

[Lextreme II]

I am seriously considering a stand alone computer for my Single Turbo LS400. The reason being i will be running a fully build forged internals and able to handle somewhere around 800-950 rwhp. My piggy will not able to utilized the full potential of this motor.

I am thinking an universal version of the AEM. I know Kdog prefer Autronic and others perfer something else. The problem with US cars with Autralian stand alone would be support and tech help.

Please input your comments.

 

[toad007]

Why dont you try Megasquirt? Its cheap( ~$140 for kit, $65 for univ wiring harness kit, there is a daughter card that can do extra stuff for $40-50 ). You have to solder it all together yourself, but its a good way to learn about it and how everything works, plus you can fix it down the road if it fails. There is an AWESOME message board that provides tons of peer support( www.msefi.com ). The basic version of megasquirt just offers 8x8 fuel control which isn't anything fancy, but Megasquirt 'n Spark-Extra offers tons of stuff. http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/index.html Unless you need better than 12x12 fuel/spark resolution, I dont see a reason to not use this system. You could convert to running megasquirt, and then go over to use the Ford EDIS coil pack wasted spark setup and get rid of that funky dual distributor setup.

 

[turboandrew]

Megasquirt is a great suggestion if it can support two ignition outputs and you want to limit your spending. If you want full sequential, I would go with the AEM EMS. The cost is reasonable and the support is very good. I plan on going with the AEM, and I -really- hope I can start wiring it up next month.

 

[Peewee]

Go find out who is one of the best tuners around you, and go with what they say.

Use whatever ECU your tuner recommends.

 

[KDog]

There are many expert Autronic Tuners in the US, you will have no problems finding support for Autronic in the US. If you do you have my guarantee that I will fly out to you, fix the problem myself and pay for it myself.

Ben Strader in California would be my pick. One of the best tuners you will find ANYWHERE! He runs an EFI school which teaches EFI tuning to the tuners.
Autronic SM4, Autronic CDI500R will do the job properly.

Anyone who knows me know I am not biased. There are reasons that I prefer the Autronic to other ECU's. Lets just say that the thing which seperates one ECU from another is not a specification which can be written down. You won't even find variables for it in the ECU software. A few ECU's have it - most don't. That will be all I am writing on the subject.

 

[SprinterTRD]

Whichever ECU you decide on remember what your engine is worth. some of the cheep ECUs will run an engine but the quality of the ECU/software will impact on how well your engine will run.

In Australia MoTeC and Autronic are the top 2, you will find dealers/tuners for them all around the world. Just to balance things in the MoTeC range you can use a M4-8 or a M800 ECU with any ignition system as well as using all the standard sensors.

 

[thad]

Why dont you try Megasquirt? Its cheap( ~$140 for kit, $65 for univ wiring harness kit, there is a daughter card that can do extra stuff for $40-50 ). You have to solder it all together yourself, but its a good way to learn about it and how everything works, plus you can fix it down the road if it fails. There is an AWESOME message board that provides tons of peer support( www.msefi.com ). The basic version of megasquirt just offers 8x8 fuel control which isn't anything fancy, but Megasquirt 'n Spark-Extra offers tons of stuff. http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/index.html Unless you need better than 12x12 fuel/spark resolution, I dont see a reason to not use this system. You could convert to running megasquirt, and then go over to use the Ford EDIS coil pack wasted spark setup and get rid of that funky dual distributor setup.

I'm really interested in Megasquirt n Spark. Do you know anyone using it on a 1UZ? I have just started researching both megasquirt and the 1uz EFI system. There are a couple of issues I am concerned about:

Megasquirt doesn't support sequential injection on an eight cylander.

The dual distributers, can they be controlled by megasquirt?

Ditch the MAF and use the onboard MAP?

I hope to pick up a T-boned LS400 this weekend. $1000, and it has blingin' 18" rims. By the time I sell the rims, headlights, seats, etc, I think I'll be getting the engine, harness, ecu, suspension, brakes, driveline for close to free.
I'm not sure what I want to drop it in... considering old corollas, 2nd gen rx7, volvo wagon.

 

[cribbj]

Check out this ECU:

http://www.034efi.com/034ECUSTGII.html

It does up to 8 cylinders in direct fire (not waste spark) mode, and the same with full sequential injection. Ignition and fuel maps are 16x16 (256 points). All for $1650 USD which is substantially cheaper than anything else with this capability here in the US.

I'd really like to know whose ECU this is; do any of you Aussies recognise it?

Only downside I've seen with it so far is that you need an external 5 VDC supply for sensor power, and it really wants to be setup with a 60-2 tooth crank trigger like the Bosch Motronic, although it "could" be setup with a 12-1 tooth like the Honda. Since I think the 1UZ has a 12 tooth setup, one tooth could be ground off and it would work, although personally, I think the 60-2 would give much better resolution for ignition timing.

I have an AEM on my Supra now, but I'm looking at this ECU pretty hard for my 1UZ project. The direct fire ignition is a big plus IMHO over the AEM. That and the finer resolution that a 60 tooth trigger gives for the ignition and injection, versus a 12 tooth.

John

 

[SprinterTRD]

John,

16x16 map points arn't many, MoTeC ECUs can have up to 21(load)x40(RPM) programable sites with interpolation between the sites.

There is not much difference between 60-2 teeth and 12 teeth in terms of resolution. It will depend on how the values are updated within the software and hardware.

I has a quick read through the specs for the 034, It has a internal +5V supply for the sensors but it has a circuit breaker for short circuit protection. $1650 is ok but add what it will it cost to modify the trigger system on the UZ.

I would suggest that you download the M800 or M4-8 software from motec.com.au (its free) to see some of the stuff you can do.

 

[cribbj]

I agree, the 16x16 resolution isn't its strong suit, but many tuners don't use the full capability of these maps anyway.

The AEM is the only ECU I know of in the same price range, and it does have a 17x21 matrix for its maps, but it's a waste spark system ECU. This 034 is direct fire which IMHO is a huge advantage for ease of starting and lack of backfire.

The Motec's are really nice, but at $4000+ USD they're in another league.
John

 

[toad007]

I'm really interested in Megasquirt n Spark. Do you know anyone using it on a 1UZ? I have just started researching both megasquirt and the 1uz EFI system. There are a couple of issues I am concerned about:

Megasquirt doesn't support sequential injection on an eight cylander.

The dual distributers, can they be controlled by megasquirt?

Ditch the MAF and use the onboard MAP?

Off the top of my head i dont know of anyone using megasquirt on a 1uz. But head over to www.msefi.com (the forums) and read up. There are a LOT of people using it on a LOT of different engines. The current version of megasquirt does not support sequiential injection, as it only has two injection channels for simultaneous or alternating batch fire. The only real advantage to sequiential injection is an increase in idle quality and idle emissions. The dual distributors, i'm sure someone on the forums would have an idea on how to do that, i'd just do a wasted spark ford EDIS 8 setup though. And yes, megasquirt is MAP based, so ditch the MAF. Its a cheap ECU, it has its limits, its for the people that like to do things themselves. When UltraMegasquirt comes out within the next year or so, Motec and Autotronic better watch out as it will have bigger tables, sequential injection, coil on plug capability, along with a buncha other crap, for a LOT less than the above mentioned ECUs. Head over to the megasquirt 'n spark-extra website to see what megasquirt can do right now. There is a megasquirt II coming out soon which is a dropin upgrade to the current megasquirt that uses the ultramegasquirt code and has support for two ignition channels directly, so that should have no problem controlling the two distributors. Check it out.

 

[SprinterTRD]

Toad007,

While Megasquirt is improving their system I think that they have a long way to go in terms of features before MoTeC and Autronic have to worry about anything. Also remember that other ECU manufactures are developing new software and ECU's as well.

 

[thad]

MS&S info

Off the top of my head i dont know of anyone using megasquirt on a 1uz. But head over to www.msefi.com (the forums) and read up. There are a LOT of people using it on a LOT of different engines. The current version of megasquirt does not support sequiential injection, as it only has two injection channels for simultaneous or alternating batch fire. The only real advantage to sequiential injection is an increase in idle quality and idle emissions.
The dual distributors, i'm sure someone on the forums would have an idea on how to do that, i'd just do a wasted spark ford EDIS 8 setup though. And yes, megasquirt is MAP based, so ditch the MAF. Its a cheap ECU, it has its limits, its for the people that like to do things themselves.

Thanks for the input. I will read up on the Ford EDIS 8 setup.
I have been reading and searching on msefi. No info specific to the 1UZ. I posted a ?? there and received some good info:

I am a bata tester for both Bruce and Al and also for the Extra guys James and Phil. We are in the early stages of trying to set up MAF support. Would you considder please donating your old MAF for testing. We want to get both the Lesus and Ford peoce to work with the newest code.

Regarding ignition on your car I would think using a 36-1 trigger ring ono the harmonic ballancer and using Fors EDIS-6 and the extra code would be the easist way to bring the motor to life. Feel free to contact me if you need any help. I have a steel 36-1 ring to trade if it would help.

Andy Whittle

Andy basically gave the same advice you did: ditch dual dizzys and run Ford EDIS.

You may be in luck..... but you will need to do some investigations to see if you can run a similar setup to me

1 - Check how many teeth are on your Engine speed sensor (12 or 24?)
2 - Check how many teeth on on the sensors in the distributor (1?)
3 - Assuming one tooth in the distributors, check that these occur at opposite times to each other

If the distributor sensors are 1 tooth, each 360 crank degrees out of phase with the other, then you should be able to combine the G1 and G2 signals (pins 6&7) as a second VR input, and keep your engine speed - NE (pin as the "normal" input.

You will need to build 2 VR conditioners - see the http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/wheel2.html

Be warned - you may need to do some experimentation with getting good clean signals - although your may be better off than me as your G- and NE- are separate. Mine shared a common wire leading to cross-talk.

Not sure about all those other sub sensors and the connection to the auto transmission.

Regards, Richard

I wish I could check the engine speed sensor and cam sensor for number of teeth. I would prefer to use the stock dizzys and sensors if possible.
Someone bought the T-boned LS400 before I had a chance to>: There have been 2 crashed ls400s on craigslist within the past 3months, and I was slow on the draw both times. Another one will pop up I hope.

 

[thad]

maxpower on lextreme wrote:The crank has a 12 tooth trigger and uses a reluctor sensor to send the info to the ECU. Behind each dizzy attached to the cam belt gear there is a "home" signal used for the sequential/multipoint injection, the dizzy home signals are 180 degrees apart and occur once each engine cycle ie every 2 crank revolutions. It is also a reluctor pickup.





Dizzy signals are 180 apart at the cam, correct? 360 at the crank, yes?


Sounds like combining G1 & G2 as VR signal 2 could be a go.

 

[SprinterTRD]

The G2 signal happens around 14deg BTDC no 1 G1 360deg later, & 12 teeth on the crank
Later toyota motors with VVT generally have 36Teeth with 1 missing on the crank.

 

[MWP]

You have to remeber that not many dyno shops will know how to tune a Megasquirt ECU.
This alone might make a well known brand ECU a better choice.

The only way itll work is if you learn about the MS and assist the dyno tuning guy in setting up the fuel maps, etc.
There is a LOT to learn though... youll need to know exactly how MS works, how the software works, how to tune it, and the basics of dyno tuning.

 

[turboandrew]

MSEFI is defintly for someone who wants to tune their own car, however; at least you would learn fuel injection inside and out, and after that experience, you would probably never have to pay someonone big bucks to tune a car for you ever again...

I you want something with a big user base in the USA, I still think the AEM EMS is the way to go. They have a huge online presence on their forums, and there are some great tuners out there for the product.

 

[Lextreme II]

Andrew which AEM EMS would be the choice for 1uzfe? I posted few questions in AEM forum but they dont want to get into the Lexus V8 market. I even pm the site admin, so far no respond yet.

 

[turboandrew]

I am going to use the Supra Turbo unit mainly because I already have it and also because it shares the same ecu connector as the sc400. The universal unit would work just fine as well. All the units have the same capabilities (well, I guess some can be purchased with wide band O2 controller built in). If I were to start from scratch, I would probably get the universal one just because the ECU connector parts woud likely be in stock more often than the Supra one.

I'd be happy to help with any questions you have, PM for more info. I am starting on my engine harness this week.

 

[Lextreme II]

I am currently shopping around for a stand alone unit so i can run greater than 16 psi. KDog recommended a wonderful unit and i am doing more information on it.