RedPhoenix
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How would I set up a 230v outlet if everything in my house is 115v?
Welding FTW
matt
Welding FTW
matt
Setting up a 230v Outlet?
- Thread starter RedPhoenix
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The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
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Are you sure everything is 115v? What about your clothes dryer, hot water heater, cooktop & oven?
Your electrical panel should have (2) incoming "hot" phases, which are color coded black, red, or blue, then a neutral which is white, and finally the frame of the panel should be earthed with a 6' copperclad rod via a bare copper conductor.
Each of the hot phases referenced to the neutral is 115v. Referenced to each other they are 230v.
To do a 230v outlet requires, at minimum, both hot phases and an earth conductor. Possibly both hot phases, a neutral, and an earth (some older clothes dryers require this.)
You'd need to add a 2 pole (one pole for each hot phase) circuit breaker to your panel, of whatever capacity is recommended for the welding machine, then run 3c (2 phases + earth) or 4c (2 phases + earth + neutral) cable of an appropriate size, as per the NEC to a dedicated outlet for the welding machine.
If you're not a licensed electrician, you should consider hiring one to do this work, to ensure your own safety and that of your family.
Your electrical panel should have (2) incoming "hot" phases, which are color coded black, red, or blue, then a neutral which is white, and finally the frame of the panel should be earthed with a 6' copperclad rod via a bare copper conductor.
Each of the hot phases referenced to the neutral is 115v. Referenced to each other they are 230v.
To do a 230v outlet requires, at minimum, both hot phases and an earth conductor. Possibly both hot phases, a neutral, and an earth (some older clothes dryers require this.)
You'd need to add a 2 pole (one pole for each hot phase) circuit breaker to your panel, of whatever capacity is recommended for the welding machine, then run 3c (2 phases + earth) or 4c (2 phases + earth + neutral) cable of an appropriate size, as per the NEC to a dedicated outlet for the welding machine.
If you're not a licensed electrician, you should consider hiring one to do this work, to ensure your own safety and that of your family.
I too went through setting up a 230V outlet, you can DIY but just spend the small amount and have an electrician do it, When i did mine, we actually don't use our 230V dryer outlet so i just had him run wires from that breaker to a new outlet. But thats only if you never use a 230V dryer. also keep in mind what the specs on your welder are. Mine is a small one that only really draws 18 amps so i did not have to beef up any wiring, always spend the money on thicker wire, it is not worth the risk! been there, done that. Also if you plan on doing alot of welding and may upgrade your welder later, maybe you should just have heavy gauge wire installed now instead of later.
move to europe,
I have 230v 1fase and 400v 3fase for the heavy tools.
I was just thinking if you use 115v you must draw enourmous loads of amps over there, what sort of wire runs in the walls? and what fuses do you use?
we can do 16A on 230v and 3x32A on 400v
just interested. because have a lot of USA musicians in the studios at the moment and they all bring 115v keyboards and gitar amps, and we have some difficulties getting the transformers for them set-up whitout hum, i think our transformers are not adaquate maybe?
grtz Thomas
I have 230v 1fase and 400v 3fase for the heavy tools.
I was just thinking if you use 115v you must draw enourmous loads of amps over there, what sort of wire runs in the walls? and what fuses do you use?
we can do 16A on 230v and 3x32A on 400v
just interested. because have a lot of USA musicians in the studios at the moment and they all bring 115v keyboards and gitar amps, and we have some difficulties getting the transformers for them set-up whitout hum, i think our transformers are not adaquate maybe?
grtz Thomas
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Thomas, for most home wiring, either 14 AWG or sometimes 12 AWG is used for lighting and small power. These translate to between 2.5mm2 and 4mm2 for only 20 amperes at 115v!
We typically have 200 ampere service to most homes, but it is only single phase (well, two hot phases) and we cannot run any three phase motors. It's a very inefficient system, and the I2R losses in the copper are enormous because of our lower voltages.
On the other hand, our industrial systems are somewhat more efficient than Europe because we run 480v three phase instead of 400v, and 4.2kV instead of 3.3kV, etc.
Be sure the musicians are using "real" stepdown transformers and they should have no hum. Many people use cheap little electronic voltage converters instead of transformers, and those things introduce lots of noise and waveform distortion.
When I first lived in North Africa, I brought over some 115v electronics such as stereo equipment and it all worked fine as long as I was using "real" transformers to step the voltage down from 230v to 115v. The electronics didn't care that the frequency was different - they only wanted the proper voltage.
We typically have 200 ampere service to most homes, but it is only single phase (well, two hot phases) and we cannot run any three phase motors. It's a very inefficient system, and the I2R losses in the copper are enormous because of our lower voltages.
On the other hand, our industrial systems are somewhat more efficient than Europe because we run 480v three phase instead of 400v, and 4.2kV instead of 3.3kV, etc.
Be sure the musicians are using "real" stepdown transformers and they should have no hum. Many people use cheap little electronic voltage converters instead of transformers, and those things introduce lots of noise and waveform distortion.
When I first lived in North Africa, I brought over some 115v electronics such as stereo equipment and it all worked fine as long as I was using "real" transformers to step the voltage down from 230v to 115v. The electronics didn't care that the frequency was different - they only wanted the proper voltage.
Hey Cribjj,
The studio I work in is amongst the most advanced in europe, so things like hum are almost non existend over here. only when someone puts in an amp in the 115 volt system over here, they don't bring their own we've got it in the building, chances are 50% there's hum on the system.
but here you mention something i hadn't thought of, our system put's out the normal 50hz freq, and indeed there could be stuff used to 60hz, some equipment like, trace elliot base amps always hums, where marshall gitar amps don't,
the problem might be in the diodes and caps behind the tranfsformers in the equipment itself, desing differences between makes perhaps. i will look into that
Thanx for the worthfull tip!
ps industrial power grid is allready up to a healthy 10kv on this side of europe.
grtz Thomas
The studio I work in is amongst the most advanced in europe, so things like hum are almost non existend over here. only when someone puts in an amp in the 115 volt system over here, they don't bring their own we've got it in the building, chances are 50% there's hum on the system.
but here you mention something i hadn't thought of, our system put's out the normal 50hz freq, and indeed there could be stuff used to 60hz, some equipment like, trace elliot base amps always hums, where marshall gitar amps don't,
the problem might be in the diodes and caps behind the tranfsformers in the equipment itself, desing differences between makes perhaps. i will look into that
Thanx for the worthfull tip!
ps industrial power grid is allready up to a healthy 10kv on this side of europe.
grtz Thomas
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Thomas, honestly, check how you're giving them 230v to 115v conversion. If it's with a normal transformer everything should be golden, however if it's with a little solid state power converter, then there will definitely be hum. The power converters do a double conversion from AC/DC/AC, and produce a PWM output that is a poor excuse for a sine wave. Even if the electronics have a well filtered AC/DC power supply inside them, many cannot handle the cr*p put out by these converters. And it's not just cr*p on the fundamental frequency - these things produce terrible 3rd, 5th and 7th harmonics too.
On system voltages, in general, the comparable 60 Hz US voltages are higher than the 50 Hz European normes. Your 11kV compares to our 13.8kV for example, and the European 30kV compares to our 34.5kV. There's a difference like this AFAIK until the voltages get over 100kV, but I don't have much experience or interest with anything much over 60kV, so I don't know what the common voltages are above that.
On system voltages, in general, the comparable 60 Hz US voltages are higher than the 50 Hz European normes. Your 11kV compares to our 13.8kV for example, and the European 30kV compares to our 34.5kV. There's a difference like this AFAIK until the voltages get over 100kV, but I don't have much experience or interest with anything much over 60kV, so I don't know what the common voltages are above that.
Hey cribbj,
There's a HUGE (100kVA) Phillips/Vined wound transformer in the basement over here. we have put a scope on it and there's a very nice and clean 50hz on the 115v side. even during hum events the writer scope didn't show anything unusual.
I know the solid state stuff sucks unless it costs a fortune (not a real problem here but still)
I am leaning towards the frequency thingy. I have a big danfoss frequency regulator at home, will try and put a seperate 115v 60hz system up when the problem is there again. see what hapens. (my back hurts allready)
the Hum thing is rather strange cause even when I put a line signal transformer (1:1 wound coupler trafo) in the audio sercuit the hum remains so it's not in our system (just tried that) and should indeed be made and added before the the signal enters our cabling.
Thanx again
grtz Thomas
There's a HUGE (100kVA) Phillips/Vined wound transformer in the basement over here. we have put a scope on it and there's a very nice and clean 50hz on the 115v side. even during hum events the writer scope didn't show anything unusual.
I know the solid state stuff sucks unless it costs a fortune (not a real problem here but still)
I am leaning towards the frequency thingy. I have a big danfoss frequency regulator at home, will try and put a seperate 115v 60hz system up when the problem is there again. see what hapens. (my back hurts allready)
the Hum thing is rather strange cause even when I put a line signal transformer (1:1 wound coupler trafo) in the audio sercuit the hum remains so it's not in our system (just tried that) and should indeed be made and added before the the signal enters our cabling.
Thanx again
grtz Thomas
