How would you tune my car? What ECU?

[-Nemesis-]

First of all, $ is a major factor for me, I know I should by the best but I can't.

My 1uz has a centrifugal supercharger on it, running blow through MAF and stock ECU. It's runs okay on petrol, but definitely struggles at high revs (avoid.)

The tricky bit is I have LPG vapour injection also. This system has it's own ECU and controls fuel, I think it works like a piggy pack and listens to the injector pulse signals meant for the petrol injectors, then goes from there to work out it's needs. 90% sure it doesn't control timing (big factor with lpg I think.) It's struggling big time lately, I'm not sure if it's boost related or the MAF or both (probably)

My guess would be some sort of standalone that can have two independent tune maps, switchable via a toggle or relay. That way I can have a complete tune for petrol and seperate for gas. Though I want to run lpg 99% of the time. But, how would you wire up 2 sets of 8 injectors seperately from the one ECU?

The cheaper option would be one of these halfway MAP converter gadgets, then tell the original ECU it needs more fuel. I assume then the LPG ECU will do the same for the LPG injectors.

I noticed the MAP-ECU 2 has timing control and 2 seperate switchable tune maps too. But it would be installed as well as the stock ecu and lpg ecu, that's a lot of wires! Though it does have a self calibrate tune feature and what not. But the cost is not much less than the bottom dwelling standalones, I think the Adaptronic is under $1k.

Any thoughts on what people would do were it them? Ditch both ECU's? convert to MAP and keep originals?

I think either way I have to lose this MAF, it's causing big dramas.

 

[-Nemesis-]

Probably should add, it's a manual in a donor car. So computer is really only needed to control engine.

 

[cribbj]

Thinking (talking) completely outside the box here. What about two completely separate EMS systems? Leave the stock ECU for your petrol system, running from the MAF, and then put in the Adaptronic to run your LPG from a MAP sensor?

The ignition would be fired from the stock ECU when you run on petrol, then from the Adaptronic on LPG. I don't know how you'd switch over the ignition from the Toy box to the Adaptronic, but you guys are pretty clever over there and there's bound to be a way.

With higher end ECU's you could do just what you're saying with a single ECU, and have separate maps and separate injector outputs with the throw of a switch, but it takes $$$$

This arrangement probably wouldn't cure your driveability problem at high revs with the petrol system, and I'm sure there would be other hurdles I didn't think of, such as how to share common sensors like TPS, coolant, etc. (I'm still on my first cup of coffee) but to me, it's an intriguing idea.

 

[Bushwhacker]

Lose the LPG. or have you installed it for economy reasons? If so then why the supercharger and the need for more power??

 

[clint]

Have you thought about getting rid of the petrol system altogether if you only use it 1% of the time?
I had a lpg dedicated van once, it went a lot better than a dual fuel one or even the stock petrol engine.

 

[1uzvl]

ever looked at a Profire ecu for the gas?Its a ecu especially made to control gas with maps for low gas pressure and all that other crap that petrol wouldnt use.

I breifly looked into it for the vl to run straight gas only.

 

[-Nemesis-]

Lose the LPG. or have you installed it for economy reasons? If so then why the supercharger and the need for more power??

The LPG system keeps up better than the petrol when everything is working well. It's sequential vapour injection. LPG cools the air (I believe) and has an octane of over 105ron so the possibilities are endless.

Then there's fact it's up to a 3rd of the price of petrol. I'd rather lose 10kw (though I doubt it would be less tuned right) and have it cost $30 to drive 400km, as opposed to $100.




Interesting theory cribbj, I had thought similar though I didn't consider all the sensors. I had pictured some basic unit just controlling fuel and timing with the stock ECU doing the rest.





Another option, kinda. The Romano N gas system I have; apparently can be set up to inject petrol as well (in conjuction with stock ECU, it must block petrol injector signals or something.) So instead of spending mega bucks on a dual LPG circuit to keep up in high HP engines, you can set it to inject any percentage of petrol (say 10%) to get the biggest bang. Good in theory, but the problem is boost still keeps blowing the lids off the MAF's, and that's at only ~6psi, was hoping to get closer to 10 with a tune.

 

[-Nemesis-]

ever looked at a Profire ecu for the gas?Its a ecu especially made to control gas with maps for low gas pressure and all that other crap that petrol wouldnt use.

I breifly looked into it for the vl to run straight gas only.

No, but i'm about to heheh....

Have you thought about getting rid of the petrol system altogether if you only use it 1% of the time?
I had a lpg dedicated van once, it went a lot better than a dual fuel one or even the stock petrol engine.

Yeah traditionally it was better to do one or the other. I wanted to keep petrol for times there may be no gas. With the 4WD I end up in some remote places.

 

[-Nemesis-]

The Profire website hasn't been updated in 2 years :s

 

[Zuffen]

Bryan,

If your blowing the lids off the MAF why not place it before the supercharger. You don't run a wastegate do you?

If you left your gas ECU in place and let it run the gas then use an Adaptronic for the fuel it should work.

To switch from one ECU to the other would only entail turning the igintion off to whichever ECU you wanted off. Simple relay would do it. This would leave the ECU powered so it wouldn't need to re-learn anything but it wouldn't interfere with the running of the engine.

To separate the sensors from the two suystems a couple of diaodes in the relative feeds from each sensor should solve that.

I don't see it asbeing too difficult or expensive.

 

[-Nemesis-]

The biggest reason for not running a pull through MAF is the lack of room. My blower sits against the radiator support panel. I've tried an intake running out through the panel, down under the headlight and back up into the engine bay through a hole underneath.

At the moment I have a pod filer almost directly on the blower, it actually sticks out through the front grill on an angle. I've then covered it in a custom box so you can't see it. It seemed to run so much better like this (when going properly) and the sounds of the impeller blades are awesome heheh....

I guess I could try the big pipe thing and put the MAF back in the engine bay for now somehow, but again, room is an issue.

For now i'm going to disconnect the intake from the charger and see if my running problems on lpg are boost related, though I doubt it....

 

[Cobber]

Just go stand alone ecu with two seperate maps for fuel & ignition. When you switch from one to the other use a change over relay to power the other set of injectors when you flick the switch. Simple install and you can tune to get the best performance from both.

Sell your 1uz ecu AFM etc.

 

[-Nemesis-]

Sounds easy enough.

Driving it today (been off the road building a new exhaust, which sounds farkin hot) the petrol side runs red hot. The LPG is funky, so somethings wrong with the tune or system in the LPG.

 

[Cobber]

Don't forget the AF ratio is different for petrol and LPG.

 

[-Nemesis-]

Yeah half my problem now is there's just too much shyt on the engine, too many sensors and computers and what not.

I shoulda looked into dedicated lpg with a blow through gas research carby lol.... No wiring or ecu's.....

 

[Cobber]

Aw come on it aint that hard I managed to wire up an Adaptronic on my car with no prior experience with efi. Just read the book and do it one wire at a time. I'm sure it will run perfect and if you do it yourself will cost about $1,500. You will only need a map sensor & air temp sensor along with the std toyota sensors.
The external changeover switch input could be used to not only change the fuel and ignition maps but also switch the fuel gauge in the dash and switch over the injectors.

A friend has a ford 460 big block on gas research and just loves the way the pod filter turns to dust when it backfires.

 

[-Nemesis-]

A friend has a ford 460 big block on gas research and just loves the way the pod filter turns to dust when it backfires.

Hehe yea I've heard about that factor...



I was thinking Adaptronic, I have talked with Andy before.

Normally I wouldn't be fussed about trying to wire it up, the LPG is a big unknown which is half the problem. Ideally I'd like to bin the Romano ECU as well and go full standalone for both.

I wouldn't know where to start as far as tuning goes. I would have to load a base map of some sorts and drive to a tuner.

 

[Cobber]

The base map I loaded from the adaptronic web site works very well on my car and is 98% tuned. I found the software easy to use and set up along with their tech support. Rob from Adaptronic replied to my emails within the hr.

I don't see LPG bing an unknown it's just a fuel type.

It would be worth dropping them an email and explaining what you wanted to do and I'm sure they will point you in the right direction.

Lots of ecu's have a dual map facility so just pick one your comfortable with.

 

[-Nemesis-]

Was speaking to a local tuner and got some info

Usually the easy way to switch the injectors is with a single relay on the 12V+ power feed. You just use a relay that has an 87 and an 87A pin. When the relay is off 87A gets the power, and relay on 87 gets the power. So then you only need a single switch in the cabin. You also run the wire from the switch to the ecu so that it too knows which injector set is runnning and can switch maps.

He has done an Adaptronic but not dual tune. Said he really likes the Haltech P2000 but I looked em up and they're $2.5k just for hardware.


I've also been watching this:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=220378843854

 

[1uzvl]

looks like someone is running up their own auction..