jgscott
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Thanks, this is kinda what I thought. Are you in the process of doing your heads ?qca said:
1UZ vs. 3UZ Heads (Worked ie: Ported)
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The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
I think you are onto something, the later engines do have a higher initial cost, but if it has shim under bucket already, better flowing heads, and vvt-i, maybe this is a better platform if you want to go with the v-8 and are chasing big power.
doesnt change the FACT that the answers to your questions are still: No, No, and 'how long is a piece of string'. Exactly what alternate answer would you like to hear...
note that the 1uz vvti buckets whilst SUB are still only 31mm dia and thus still pose a limit for nasty cam profiles. 33mm shimless would be a nice upgrade. having the OS valves with 5.5mm stems is a weight bonus too, especially nice for RPM gain. ufortunately this is offset against the shockingly bad rods warranting a bottom end rebuild none the less
FWIW, the 2uz cam builders recommend upgrading the buckets past .400 lift because of the 31mm diameter of the buckets. With a shim under bucket configuration, the "kibbles n' bits" are much less likely to come loose, but it's still a good idea. I would think though that .400 lift is PLENTY for even the most robust turbo applications.
Thoughts, coments, insight?
Eric
As I asked of my second question about the stage 1 porting, I was asking what possible HP could be acheived ? And if anyone has actually done this and what was the result. I kinda of have a issue with this, as I know that a correctly ported head and valve work can improve the HP of a stock engine.
Just for refference I talked with Chris of AARP http://www.anderson-audio.com/projects.html. He owns many track records for Supra's and builds many 1000 + HP Toyotas. He thought that saying your could not acheive HP with porting and bowl work on the Non VVTI 1UZFEwas totally incorrect. He also mention that the NON VVTI V8 , N/A motors responded even better to porting and bowl work than others and would produce a true HP gain if done the right way.
My post was an inquire of anyone who has actually done this type of head work or know of, on the 1U- Non VVTI and there comments and actual results. I respect anyone's guess, but was seeking someone who may have actually done this on their car. Not someone who had a inexperienced opinion, and untested feedback. If edma65 has actually flow bench ported and worked the heads, and experienced results that dynoed 0 gain, then I guess I misunderstood or the heads were done incorrectly.
Sorry sincerely did not mean to confuse or flame.
BTW I have a 97 SC400 w/ BFI, X Dual, Unichip, 125 Shot Zex, and a few other Mods.
WDoherty
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jgscott........i'm sorry man, he was right on every response. The heads, manifolds, etc. are totally different. As for how much you'd gain from a port, i haven't seen anyone with those results yet. sorry
WDoherty
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i was giving you figures for turbo charged lexus sc300, the original 2jz offered in the lexus. It seems that both the gte and ge have similiar response to turbocharging although you must install a thicker head gasket on the 2jzge to lower compression, rods and pistons are already forged. Na-t 2jzge engines are making massive hp with the only internal work being a thicker headgasket. One of my favorite is a gentleman kbprice on clubna-t.com with a na-t (2jzge) supra putting down 540 rwhp on pump gas at 18psi everyday with only an hks safc, a 1uz maf, 525cc injectors, a turbonets t62-1 turbo and a head port(worth around 40 rwhp).Pro said:
turboandrew
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None of the 2JZ (GE or GTE) stock pistons are forged.
Anyway, let's try to keep this discussion on the head flow.
Anyone have flow figures for a ported 2JZGTE to compare to the ported 1UZvvti?
What about fully ported early 1UZ flow numbers?
1UZvvti and 2UZ have shim under bucket from factory? If so, seems like it's more economical to start with a later engine, assuming you want a high VE at high RPM, even if the price of the engine is much more, considering the cost involved in making an early motor flow and rev well.
Anyway, let's try to keep this discussion on the head flow.
Anyone have flow figures for a ported 2JZGTE to compare to the ported 1UZvvti?
What about fully ported early 1UZ flow numbers?
1UZvvti and 2UZ have shim under bucket from factory? If so, seems like it's more economical to start with a later engine, assuming you want a high VE at high RPM, even if the price of the engine is much more, considering the cost involved in making an early motor flow and rev well.
WDoherty
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ok, well if i am wrong on that, i do know that the stcok pistons even on a 2jzge will take up to 30 pounds of boost off a big tubo whatever they are made of, what are they made of if they can handle so much?turboandrew said:
I think you are onto something, the later engines do have a higher initial cost, but if it has shim under bucket already, better flowing heads, and vvt-i, maybe this is a better platform if you want to go with the v-8 and are chasing big power.
Lextreme II
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Yes, later uzfe engines and 1uzvvti have shim under bucket. http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4077&highlight=bucketturboandrew said:
E
ed_ma61
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lol!jgscott said:
doesnt change the FACT that the answers to your questions are still: No, No, and 'how long is a piece of string'. Exactly what alternate answer would you like to hear...
note that the 1uz vvti buckets whilst SUB are still only 31mm dia and thus still pose a limit for nasty cam profiles. 33mm shimless would be a nice upgrade. having the OS valves with 5.5mm stems is a weight bonus too, especially nice for RPM gain. ufortunately this is offset against the shockingly bad rods warranting a bottom end rebuild none the less
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edma65 and jgscott please retire to neutral corners!
Flaming doesn't have a place on/in the Lextreme Forums.
We will all keep it nice or the Moderators will lock the thread and ban members guilty flaming.
That said please consider your questions carefully before posing them.
We are all mature adults please deport yourselves as such.
edma65 and jgscott please retire to neutral corners!
Flaming doesn't have a place on/in the Lextreme Forums.
We will all keep it nice or the Moderators will lock the thread and ban members guilty flaming.
That said please consider your questions carefully before posing them.
We are all mature adults please deport yourselves as such.
Pro
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no running around the censorship.
David wants his kids to be able to read this forum.
there will be no flame wars and keyboard warrior ego fights on this forum.
jtgerry - your question is open ended - no need to get offended. ed_ma61, this isn't the "other" toyota forum. explain WHY it is an open ended question if you have issues with it.
David wants his kids to be able to read this forum.
there will be no flame wars and keyboard warrior ego fights on this forum.
jtgerry - your question is open ended - no need to get offended. ed_ma61, this isn't the "other" toyota forum. explain WHY it is an open ended question if you have issues with it.
C
cowboy bebop
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We can all expect new Ferrea valves 1mm OS for 2uz-fe very soon, and I would be interested in seeing the stock 3uz valve specs to see if they are interchangable. Ed, can you assist?ed_ma61 said:lol!
doesnt change the FACT that the answers to your questions are still: No, No, and 'how long is a piece of string'. Exactly what alternate answer would you like to hear...
note that the 1uz vvti buckets whilst SUB are still only 31mm dia and thus still pose a limit for nasty cam profiles. 33mm shimless would be a nice upgrade. having the OS valves with 5.5mm stems is a weight bonus too, especially nice for RPM gain. ufortunately this is offset against the shockingly bad rods warranting a bottom end rebuild none the less
FWIW, the 2uz cam builders recommend upgrading the buckets past .400 lift because of the 31mm diameter of the buckets. With a shim under bucket configuration, the "kibbles n' bits" are much less likely to come loose, but it's still a good idea. I would think though that .400 lift is PLENTY for even the most robust turbo applications.
Thoughts, coments, insight?
Eric
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the toyo bucket and shim arrangement starts running into issues at around 10.5mm+lift - so yeah - i would have thought 400thou would be the max you would want without having to convert to shorter and stronger valve guides.
turboandrew
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Seems like one could still get quite aggressive and keep lift under .400. I am probably looking for something similar to a "264" HKS cam seen on 2JZGTE's, 264 duration and 9mm lift. Hopefully good for a HP peak at 7500 RPM.
C
cowboy bebop
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Andrew, you have a 2uz right? The advertised duration of an HKS is 264, while the duration @.050 is 222. There are more aggressive 2uz cams that are 218 @ .050, and .356 lift. Just putting it out there.
Eric
Eric
E
ed_ma61
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sorry, not intending to flame, just reiterating my initial, simple, and all inclusive answer of 'no' to the 2 basic questions posed.
as for clarifying why the 3rd question is inappropriately vague:
stage 1 (??) port, short side radius and bowl inprovements will help throtle response and mid range low lift torque with improved VE, but not improve dyno peak HP (which is the universal gold standard of measurement?).
compustion chamber work? such as? to achieve what? what pistons? what compression? what fuel? etc? flow of back cut and radius ground valves? sure, itll improve low lift flow again. but youve just described a lot of work for sfa gains, and ultimately the cams which are one of the biggest bottle necks is still in place. you can only flow as much as the crappest component will allow.
exhaust? full headers or cat back? which headers? what size length primaries? what merge? primaries? primary to merge/x-over?
the list goes on - much more info required to answer the question. simply writing a shopping list of things one hears are 'good to do' does not constitute an engine build. it has to be put together with purpose, and all tuned together.
as for clarifying why the 3rd question is inappropriately vague:
stage 1 (??) port, short side radius and bowl inprovements will help throtle response and mid range low lift torque with improved VE, but not improve dyno peak HP (which is the universal gold standard of measurement?).
compustion chamber work? such as? to achieve what? what pistons? what compression? what fuel? etc? flow of back cut and radius ground valves? sure, itll improve low lift flow again. but youve just described a lot of work for sfa gains, and ultimately the cams which are one of the biggest bottle necks is still in place. you can only flow as much as the crappest component will allow.
exhaust? full headers or cat back? which headers? what size length primaries? what merge? primaries? primary to merge/x-over?
the list goes on - much more info required to answer the question. simply writing a shopping list of things one hears are 'good to do' does not constitute an engine build. it has to be put together with purpose, and all tuned together.
E
ed_ma61
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i would personally put the 31mm shim over design at a limit of 9.5mm for a high revving longer duration camPro said:
turboandrew
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I have a 0 mile 2002 2UZ, but I am not sure if that's the one I'll build. It's very tempting to do it since the cams are available and I don't have to worry about vvti. I really wanted the weight savings of the 1UZ but I am torn at this point. Anyway I have more pressing issues to worry about, like getting the car running with a stock motor. Later this summer I should have a decision on what motor to build.
turboandrew
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Forgot to ask, are they any dyno graphs for that 2UZ cam? Does the manuffacturer have an idea of where peak torque and HP could be with it?
C
cowboy bebop
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Hi Andrew,
There's no dyno graphs on the profiles as of yet. The builder did say that even they have never reached a "max" grind, meaning that the more aggressive they made them, the more the motor loved it. It's all about compromises in drivability, idle, ect. With such a limited market at this point, back to back dynos might be a tall order, but eventually I'm sure there will be plenty more back to back. FWIW, the stock 2uz profiles are 188, 194 @.050, and 314, 315 lift. Anything would be an improvement performance wise.
I hear you about being pressed. We're starting to fab up tubular turbo manifolds and that's going to take a bit of time to complete 100%.
Eric
There's no dyno graphs on the profiles as of yet. The builder did say that even they have never reached a "max" grind, meaning that the more aggressive they made them, the more the motor loved it. It's all about compromises in drivability, idle, ect. With such a limited market at this point, back to back dynos might be a tall order, but eventually I'm sure there will be plenty more back to back. FWIW, the stock 2uz profiles are 188, 194 @.050, and 314, 315 lift. Anything would be an improvement performance wise.
I hear you about being pressed. We're starting to fab up tubular turbo manifolds and that's going to take a bit of time to complete 100%.
Eric
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that figure (10.5) comes from a drag racer i know who is also heavily into GTRs - says both nissans and toyos run into reliability problems at anything over 10.5mm lift. HKS make a cam for the GTR that is 10.8mm lift and he after one 10sec pass all the stock valve guides on the inlet side were broken on his engine - and they were ingested!!! rebuild time. he had the engine rebuilt and had the cam modded for 10.5mm and no more probs. i think he was running a 264ish duration at the time too.
he also had the same issue with his 2JZGTE - on one if his engines he ran 262 duration with 10.5mm lift, and had no problems at all. this was all fine until he rebuilt the engine, ran a larger turbo and more aggressive 268s and with the same 10.5mm lift he had broken valve guides.
so ed, i would say 9.5mm is being a bit conservative if outright power is the aim. that said, it is only one millimetre of lift that would prob make 3/8th of bugger-all difference on a street engine.
he also had the same issue with his 2JZGTE - on one if his engines he ran 262 duration with 10.5mm lift, and had no problems at all. this was all fine until he rebuilt the engine, ran a larger turbo and more aggressive 268s and with the same 10.5mm lift he had broken valve guides.
so ed, i would say 9.5mm is being a bit conservative if outright power is the aim. that said, it is only one millimetre of lift that would prob make 3/8th of bugger-all difference on a street engine.
jgscott
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I agree. No harm intended from me. I felt the " spoon fed Child comment was out of place and offensive ". As far as my questions of, if the VVTI head would bolt that is a simple yes or no.Zuffen said:
As I asked of my second question about the stage 1 porting, I was asking what possible HP could be acheived ? And if anyone has actually done this and what was the result. I kinda of have a issue with this, as I know that a correctly ported head and valve work can improve the HP of a stock engine.
Just for refference I talked with Chris of AARP http://www.anderson-audio.com/projects.html. He owns many track records for Supra's and builds many 1000 + HP Toyotas. He thought that saying your could not acheive HP with porting and bowl work on the Non VVTI 1UZFEwas totally incorrect. He also mention that the NON VVTI V8 , N/A motors responded even better to porting and bowl work than others and would produce a true HP gain if done the right way.
My post was an inquire of anyone who has actually done this type of head work or know of, on the 1U- Non VVTI and there comments and actual results. I respect anyone's guess, but was seeking someone who may have actually done this on their car. Not someone who had a inexperienced opinion, and untested feedback. If edma65 has actually flow bench ported and worked the heads, and experienced results that dynoed 0 gain, then I guess I misunderstood or the heads were done incorrectly.
Sorry sincerely did not mean to confuse or flame.
BTW I have a 97 SC400 w/ BFI, X Dual, Unichip, 125 Shot Zex, and a few other Mods.
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