1UZ-FE Supercharged or Turbocharged ?

[XSW]

@slipway

We have plans of skidding a Soarer, but a 2.5 TT JZZ30 we hope to buy in about two months. In my opinion the Nissan is a much better car for skidding, especially because of the short wheelbase and it's relatively low weight. The Soarer would be easier for a beginner and harder once you get to a decent experience/skill level. Bar the double wishbone suspension I can't see any advantages to any Soarer as opposed to a S13 V8 TT Parts are cheaper and readily available and a bare shell doesn't cost much in case you crash it bad. All this is theory, I need to get my hands on the Soarer first and see what it's like, until then I can't say which one I'd prefer. Please don't misunderstand (as this is a lexus/toyota forum) I'm not saying the soarer is bad or anything, I just think the S13 suits me better. Let's put it another way, how many S-bodies vs Soarers are there on the drift scene ? There must be a reason for that. Ueno does great with his, granted, but at that skill level the car is somewhat less important as compared to an amateur. The car needs to help you, not make life harder.

@cribbj - the people I would work with have quite a bit of experience behind them and build high quality stuff that lasts. However, until I get mine done I can't really express my opinion on their workmanship. If all is well and people would want them, sure, why not.

@JustenGT8 - I just noticed you own the bad-ass red Celica, I have to say congratulations from the bottom of my heart. That is a great built and an amazing car all-round. I wasn't implying that the tune would be bad in any way, it's just that there are certain mechanical failures that can cause an engine to go a a bit lean without it being very noticeable. Again, ignore me on this one as I'm a bit paranoid, I don't have the time or money to do things again and again so usually I try to be very careful when building something so that I won't have to. I'm lazy that way.

Cheers,
Octav

 

[ruishy1]

nice purchase for 510 quid

 

[stevechumo]

A correct turbo sizing and piping on the 1UZ within 400 rwhp will have nearly zero lag. Go twin turbo!

 

[XSW]

@ruishy1 shhhhh you were watching it too ? I noticed just after I bought it it's in northern ireland so it's going to be a pain in the butt getting there since my plane lands in London. Anyway, at least I'll visit Ireland as well.

@stevechumo - After some more thought on this I think I will go with a twin T25 setup. Not only do both my SRs have a T2 (25&28) so I have spares in case I need them, but also they are relatively inexpensive to buy and very durable. On the SR it makes full boost around 2700 rpm I think and pulls fine till the redline and it has little to no lag while in the higher rpm range. It's a largely ignored turbo as you won't make tons of HP on a SR with it, but hopefully two of these should be good for 400 whp on a V8. Besides even if they don't make 400 they'll still have a bucked load of torque and just start running out of puff in the higher rpm range which is fine with me.

Now my only problem is fitment and I can't really get started on the build until I get the engine, measure it, see how I can mount it etc. I think that two little turbos with very short ex manifold might fit just fine even in the constraints of the small S13 engine bay. Keeping in mind I will be running solid engine mounts so even tight clearences would be ok.

Cheers,
Octav

 

[cribbj]

Now my only problem is fitment and I can't really get started on the build until I get the engine, measure it, see how I can mount it etc. I think that two little turbos with very short ex manifold might fit just fine even in the constraints of the small S13 engine bay. Keeping in mind I will be running solid engine mounts so even tight clearences would be ok.

Cheers,
Octav

One of our members took some very detailed dimensions of the 1UZ, which I've attached again here. Roughly speaking, you can say it's a 600mm cube.

 

[XSW]

@cribbj
Awesome, thank you so much for this, they're of great help. I'll start doing some maths as soon as I can free up a bit from my design work and measure the S13, a car hobby can be quite taxing on the finances

Cheers,
Octav

 

[ruishy1]

are you sure its not a 700mm cube crib ?
the 1uzfe fits in the s body chassis, its been done a couple of times before, and there is plenty of room at the font to run TT

 

[cribbj]

Might have been 700mm I was trusting to memory, which, I should know by now, is not a good thing to do!

 

[XSW]

Hello guys,

I've measured the engine bay of the S13 and it should fit quite snuggly, the engine is slightly smaller than I initially though which is great. I'm not sure if I'll be able to make the TT setup fit very nicely though, but I guess we'll have to live and see, it still depends on a lot of factors. I will showcase everything here once I get it, maybe it will be of some help to others.

I'm currently looking for two T25s in good condition, they should be enough for my power goals and if they're not I can eventually replace them with twin scroll GT2871R s which are theoretically good for almost 400whp on the SR with very very little lag. Quite expensive as the two new turbos with ts turbine housings would set me back about ~$2600 but it's good to know there's a very "evil" back-up solution. I believe these turbos should be good for 6-700 whp on the V8 and that's much more than I'll ever need. I will consider getting twin scroll exhaust manifolds fabricated from the start as they shouldn't hurt a regular turbo much but should do wonders as far as lag and spool time go with a twin scroll turbo.

On a different note, can anyone recommend a decently good (but not overly expensive) clutch kit + light flywheel kit that would be compatible with a 1UZ + R154 manual gearbox swap and solid enough for ~600Nm & drift conditions ? I currently have a (new) Exedy kit on the S13 and I'm really happy with it so I'm inclined to stay with the same brand. I am doing some research on this and I have a few kits noted, of course, but I'm always open to recommendations from people that actually did this before.

@ruishy1 - of course I know I'm not the first one, I was actually very glad that's the case because this way I might be able to get some help if I run into trouble big time and I also knew it would fit if it was done before. "plenty of room at the font to run TT" - where exactly do you mean ?

Cheers,
Octav

 

[stevechumo]

400 rwhp is doable with a pair of T25, and with the R154 trans. A manual trans won't rob as much hp as the auto trans. From what I know, a manual trans will probably rob 15% while the auto trans will rob 25% of hp.

 

[XSW]

Yeah, that torque converter is a pig

Cheers,
Octav

 

[XSW]

Hello guys,

Does anyone have the compression map (graph) for the Garett T25 turbo ? I've been searching for this for a while and haven't been able to find it..

Also, is the stock mass flow and volumetric efficiency of the 1UZ data available anywhere or should I just try and use estimations ?

Cheers,
Octav

 

[XR8tt]

Try this...

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/

 

[XSW]

Thank you, that's extremely useful, don't have to do all the formula calculations on my own That's an extremely useful resource, you saved me TONS of time.

Later edit : That calculator is GOLD for me, I owe you one ! In the meantime I also found a T25 compressor map, I'm yet again a happy bunny If the twin T25s were good enough for a Lotus Carlton (Omega) they'll be good enough for me. Some have dynoed 400hp stock which is quite amazing.

Cheers,
Octav

 

[fastegg]

supercharges

i was just reading this thread and googled supercharges and swa this SMS charger..... i thought it looked cool...

 

[spf_lexus]

Just my $.02:

I have a procharger p1sc on mine and i can vouch that it is very quiet (whine-wise). I bought mine used for $1000 and had the entire system running for another $400. The centri never has to deal with heat, oil tapping, or even intercooling (<9psi). I would say for the ultimate low end tq, a turbo or M112 would be the best bet but hp/$ its centri all the way.

A couple members have centri'd their 1UZ for $1500 or LESS. All you really need is the bracket that accepts vortech/prochargers and these are very cheap (sold on this site).

 

[XSW]

@spf_lexus

Thank you for your input on this. The centrifugal indeed seemed like a very nice choice, easy to implement, able to be intercooled if higher boost is needed and indeed some of the procharger and vortech (v2+) ones are quiet. I was looking more into the V1 as they are significantly less expensive though. The bracket was never considered a problem, we can fabricate that in a jiffy

The thing with these is that you would need to make some nice flowing headers anyway as well as a intercooler setup (for my application at least) so to be honest it's pretty much the same amount of fab work as the turbos if you don't want to limit yourself to lower boost/hp. Two used but in good condition T25s can be had for as little as $150 and the rebuild kit (if needed) is very cheap. Availability is pretty good too and so is the flexibility of the setup.

Wouldn't hurt to also use a procharger or vortech in conjunction with the turbos at some point or another though, would it ? Less expensive than twin GT2871Rs and probably with better response.

@fastegg

It definitely looks cool

Cheers,
Octav

 

[spf_lexus]

what about 2 small t25's for instant tq, and then a procharger hanging off the side for insane top end? hehe it would be the most 1 off 240sx ever.
Sounds like used turbos + diy the rest is your best bet, price wise.

 

[XR8tt]

A single T04Z / 84 A.R is all you need..
High compression and low-sh boost is what your after..
Throttle response wise etc...
At higher rpm the compressor doesn't heat the air, or turbine choke up in upper rpm..
A cheaper Master Power 64mm spools well on 4.0 engines...Not bad for around $650.00...U.S / AU..
If you want instant boost off the line ?? Add a two step and you'll have all the boost power you want...

 

[XSW]

@spf_lexus - Yes, for now twin T25s seem like the best idea, but I'm still looking. The charger can be added whenever I want/can after the initial setup is done but only if it will actually be needed. I as said before, the top-end will not have to be very "evil" in my application. It should help with spooling and response though.

@XR8tt - Did a quick compressor map check and indeed it might be a very good fit. I will keep it in mind for sure Thank you !

Cheers,
Octav