1UZ-FE or LS1 swap into S14 200sx

[Drizt]

Hey guys how are you going, i have been dreaming about doing an engine conversion for as long as i can remember, theres just something special about being different .. (gonna do as much research as possible, hell im not even gonna start the project for at least 12 months)

Disclaimer (im a V8 fan, so dont tell me im crazy for replacing a perfectly good SR20DET)


Ok here is what i have been contemplating
Car: S14 200sx
Car weight: 1250kg approx
SR20DET weight: 149kg Approx...

Now im trying to figure out what engine would be light enough (close enough to the SR20DET weight to preserve the handling attributes of the car.

Possible engine swaps
ENGINE: 1UZ-FE
Weight: NOT POSSITIVE but have been told 390 pound/ 177kg (is that with the trans or just the engine? does it include accessories, one guy in another thread said it was 215kg fully dressed, sounds pretty bloody heavy)
Stock power: vvt 206kW 400NM

ENGINE: LS1
Weight: NOT POSSITIVE but have been told between 177-193kg
Stock power: 250kW 500NM (tuning potential phenomenal)

Now if the LS1 is indeed closer to 200kg then possibly the engine will be too heavy and be detrimental to the handling. What do you guys recon ???

Now if i used the 1UZ-FE it would only be 27kg more. Was thinking of ways to compensate for this.
1). relocate the battery to the boot (what do they weigh 15-20kg)
and the weight transfered to the rear of the car should even out the weight distribution

What does everyone think?

-----------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: NEW INFO HERE
a). LS1 (NO trans) around 165kg
b). LS1 with 6 speed manual 226 full Dress 208 for the auto

d) 1UZ-FE (with no trans and no accessories) 177kg
c) 1UZ-FE (4.0l lexus v8) (NO trans) all accessories = around 213kg

e) SR20DET (NO trans) aournd 149 kg
f) SR20DET with 5 speed manual (from S14 200sx) ?????
------------------------------------------

 

[Pro]

battery weighs more like 6kg than 15 or 20kg.

the way to compensate for the extra weight would be to use a spring with 5% more rate than your old nissan ones. still, it is only 27kg and the difference will be negligible.

LS1s are a boat anchor. they always have been and always will be, regardless of if they're all alloy or not. you might as well swap in an EFI'd rover V8 - same technology and cheaper to acquire.

put a supra box behind the 1UZFE and you will not be disappointed - add a turbo and the fun REALLY begins. you can run up to 20psi on the older motors without changing to decomp pistons and/or copper head gaskets. that's with a 10.4:1 CR for a grand total of 17.0:1 total CR under boost - talking diesel compression there so watch your tuning.

if you can call interstate, call Grant at Per4Manz Turbochargers in Welshpool WA. Grant built the turbo system for the 9sec RA23 celica that ran that 20psi engine so he'd be bloke to talk to.

 

[Drizt]

battery weighs more like 6kg than 15 or 20kg.
LS1s are a boat anchor. they always have been and always will be, regardless of if they're all alloy or not. you might as well swap in an EFI'd rover V8 - same technology and cheaper to acquire.

the batteries i have had in my cars have always been around 15kgs ...

LS1 a boat anchor, ill put that down to ignorance or technosnobbery....
How sir can you call an LS1 a boat anchor ??? Straight out of the box with an exhaust and LS1Edit you can have 230rwkW on tap, don't know how you can call that a boat anchor... (i dont care if it has pushrods, if it makes the power, is light weight what does it matter)

Any more constructive replies....

I love the sound of the IUZ-FE, and im hungry to find out some more about them.... seems like they are a little deficient in regards to NA power, but i guess thats due to a smaller capacity compared to an LS1

 

[sideshow]

what ecu do u plan to run with the ls1 if u go ahead with it

and what transmission will u use with the ls1

i am wiring an ls1 at the moment and its not straight forward

only factory ecu will run the auto that comes with ls1

ecu then needs chip to be reprogrammed

the chip can be reprogrammed to get 280 kws out of std engine with atleast good extractors

also with the ls1 all the sensors goto the ecu then sent thru serial data cable to other micro computers

so u need extra temp sensor and oil press sensor

but apart from this its very easy to get 300kws from std engine with just a chip and bigger airflow and throttle body
thats all u need

 

[1UZ-MX83]

the batteries i have had in my cars have always been around 15kgs ...

LS1 a boat anchor, ill put that down to ignorance or technosnobbery....
How sir can you call an LS1 a boat anchor ??? Straight out of the box with an exhaust and LS1Edit you can have 230rwkW on tap, don't know how you can call that a boat anchor... (i dont care if it has pushrods, if it makes the power, is light weight what does it matter)

Any more constructive replies....

I love the sound of the IUZ-FE, and im hungry to find out some more about them.... seems like they are a little deficient in regards to NA power, but i guess thats due to a smaller capacity compared to an LS1

That you can get good power from an LS1 isn't in dispute. (I had a similar discussion with some of the LS1 forum blokes on this subject.). From a 1UZ-owner's perspective, yes they make more power AND there is a plethora of after-market stuff available for them...

However, they do have their issues. I found it amusing that one of the blokes on the LS1 forums noted that the 1UZs can get "rattly, like a new GEN3" ( a point on which I begged to differ). I spoke to my mechanic the next day about this and his response (after rolling his eyes) was to say "Yes, we heard a GEN3 starting this morning...from next door!" He was referring to the piston slap which the GEN3s tend to have. I guess what I'm saying is this:

They may put out lots of power (with plenty more achievable through the after-market), but they are inherently badly designed, badly built, and un-reliable. (I've spoken to GEN3 owners who have said, in response to the "what's been done to it" question, "oh, just the usual re-build" (or two).

If you have some $ to throw at a 1UZ, put some reasonable cams, an exhaust and throttle bodies (and after-market ECU), then decent, reliable power is there for the asking.

 

[BlownV8]

Not trying to be seen to take sides, but one of the first releases of the LS1 was only 220KW. Thats from 5.7 Litres. A Std 1uz has 185KW ( correct me if i am wrong ) from only 4 litres.
You can achieve the difference on a 1uz from intake, headers and exhaust. If your keen to play around with ECU, cam timing and head porting, the sky's the limit.

Like i said, am not trying to take sides, just offering my opinion.

With your conversion, also remember that when removing the sr, you will also be removing std intercooler and plumbing, which would almost account for the weight difference. You will have to upgrade your radiator, go for a nice light weight version from PWR of ARE, and there is your weight difference between sr and 1uz.

I do believe that with 6 bolt mains, cross webbed block, std forged internals, quad cams, and 4V per cylinder, the 1uz is a far more advanced engine, with more potential.

As for 1uz-mx83's comments on rebuilds, could not agree more. I have several mates with LS1's in their holdens, and they collectively have spent more on rebuilds, due to failures, to buy and xr8 falcon.

Just my opinion.

Adam.

It is also a much smaller engine that an LS1. One of these man not even fit in your engine bay.

 

[sideshow]

for price and ease of fittment i would go for 1uz

if i blow mine up it only costs me 1500 for a new one

compared to 4000 for a ls1

holden and ford are way behind in technology compared to *** companies

they are catching up slowly

i guess it costs alot to design an overhead quad cam engine
when u have been sticking to pushrods and rockers for 40 years

the ls1 is big engine
in the chevy silverado im wiring at moment the turtle shell hits the master cyl

and i tell u the ls1 is a horrible looking engine without the covers on

 

[Drizt]

dont get me wrong i like the 1UZ, but im gonna do my homework without badge bias...

from what i have read, 1UZ can make 125rwkW to about 140rwkW naturally aspirated in standard form, this is hugely under what an LS1 produces naturally aspirated with simple bolt ons (230rwkW)....

So what can be done to the 1UZ-FE to get the power up cheaply (NOT FORCED INDUCTION - THAT IS NOT CHEAP)

 

[Drizt]

I dont know if you are a regular at ls1.com.au but there was a guy there that put a genIII in a wb ute. He used the standard computer and ran the t56.

if i was to do the 1UZ if would definately be with a manual (i hear 154 supra turbo box does the job)

what ecu do u plan to run with the ls1 if u go ahead with it

and what transmission will u use with the ls1

i am wiring an ls1 at the moment and its not straight forward

only factory ecu will run the auto that comes with ls1

ecu then needs chip to be reprogrammed

the chip can be reprogrammed to get 280 kws out of std engine with atleast good extractors

also with the ls1 all the sensors goto the ecu then sent thru serial data cable to other micro computers

so u need extra temp sensor and oil press sensor

but apart from this its very easy to get 300kws from std engine with just a chip and bigger airflow and throttle body
thats all u need

 

[Drizt]

i am wiring an ls1 at the moment and its not straight forward

out of curiosity, what would you charge for the conversion?

1) 1UZ-FE + supra turbo box (manual)

2) LS1 + t56 (6 speed)

and what would be included in the cost ????

 

[Drizt]

I asked a well respected guy the weight of the following and these are the answers i got, does anyone dispute the weights ???


a). LS1 (NO trans) around 165
b). LS1 with 6 speed manual 226 full Dress 208 for the auto

c) 1UZ-FE (4.0l lexus v8) (NO trans) around 213
d) 1UZ-FE with 4 speed auto (most common)

e) SR20DET (NO trans) aournd 149 kg
f) SR20DET with 5 speed manual (from S14 200sx)

 

[Zuffen]

Drizt,

Simple "bolt on power" for the 1UZ would be:

Headers, high flow cats, X pipe and quality mufflers with mandrell bent exhaust. Check JBrady's posts on exhausts. He knows his stuff.

BFI and CAI will net you a bit.

Quality ECU and good tune. Check UZZ32 recent posts on this.

Cams will be available soon from NZ. We are working on this.

That should give you an easy 225kw at the crank.

One advantage the 1UZ has over the LS1 is you can rev it to 7,000 all day every day and it wont complain like an LS1.

If you want an engine that will run for years with the abuse drift will give it go the 1UZ.

You need to look at what the vehicle will be used for to decide which is the best engine for you. You need something that will rev like crazy (because you cannot control wheelspin all that easilly when fighting with the steering wheel and driving sideways) without the risk of bending a pushrod or chucking a leg out of bed.

Look at the rev limit for the LS1.

If you want ultimate power and torque (without regard to where it is made in the revband) fit a Cat D10 engine! A bit heavy but lots of torque.

 

[sideshow]

pm me with exactly what u want wired up and i will give u a quote

where abouts do u live

 

[Pro]

LS1 a boat anchor, ill put that down to ignorance or technosnobbery....
How sir can you call an LS1 a boat anchor ???

because it is. it uses technology that was developed almost 100 years ago to replace the sidevalve engines - or flathead - tendency to overheat due to 2 cylinders sharing the same exhaust port. the LS1 doesn't have 6 bolt mains does it? or a webbed block? what about DOHC per bank - oh wait it only has one and relies on poorly cast pushrods to do the work. does the LS1 have 4 valves per clinder to optimise cylinder filling and swirl characteristics to improve fuel economy? and an LS1 certainly won't rev to 8k+ reliably with a 'cam and a chip'.

regardless of if it makes power or not, the only reason it can rev enough to produce any kind of power is because they swapped the long stroke for a square bore design. in NA form then yes, the LS1 will produce more power - but you're comparing apples and oranges here.

coming onto a 1UZ forum and asking advice like that is going to land you with a 1UZ response. so don't put my reply down as not constructive - i gave you the reasons why the 1UZ is better and if you choose an LS1 then like i give a sh1t...!

 

[Drizt]

yes ls1 has 6 bolt mains.
yes youn can rev an ls1 safely to 7000rpm + depending on work done.

im here to find out more about the 1UZ-FE.
The reason i ask about comparing it to an LS1 is because its an engine in know fairly well.

because it is. it uses technology that was developed almost 100 years ago to replace the sidevalve engines - or flathead - tendency to overheat due to 2 cylinders sharing the same exhaust port. the LS1 doesn't have 6 bolt mains does it? or a webbed block? what about DOHC per bank - oh wait it only has one and relies on poorly cast pushrods to do the work. does the LS1 have 4 valves per clinder to optimise cylinder filling and swirl characteristics to improve fuel economy? and an LS1 certainly won't rev to 8k+ reliably with a 'cam and a chip'.

regardless of if it makes power or not, the only reason it can rev enough to produce any kind of power is because they swapped the long stroke for a square bore design. in NA form then yes, the LS1 will produce more power - but you're comparing apples and oranges here.

coming onto a 1UZ forum and asking advice like that is going to land you with a 1UZ response. so don't put my reply down as not constructive - i gave you the reasons why the 1UZ is better and if you choose an LS1 then like i give a sh1t...!

 

[Drizt]

Its too far away before i do the conversion (12 months minimum) so i will get a quote closer to the date, i wouldnt want to waste your time, thanks for the help though

pm me with exactly what u want wired up and i will give u a quote

where abouts do u live

 

[400ZED]

Dirzt
I am running a 1uz in a 260Z with full exhaust & headers pretty stock manifold with pod filter and wolf 3d with what i think is a good tune and i have a dyno run of 225rwhp that is 168rwkw which i think is around 225 kw at the crank out of a 93 soarer motor.
i think the LS1 is a great motor i have driven a fair few and they do sure go. i do have reserves about them some are definatlet better than others. thier tolerances are not the best. but things like cams are readerley availabe and cheaper than the$1500 or so you will pay for 1uz cams.

researck gearboxes and adaptbilty before you choose. all that said i woulsd not have anything else ( qF45 the nissan 4.5L might be worth a look but there is so little information out there you would be doing a lot fo r&d)

good luck

 

[Drizt]

Dirzt
I am running a 1uz in a 260Z with full exhaust & headers pretty stock manifold with pod filter and wolf 3d with what i think is a good tune and i have a dyno run of 225rwhp that is 168rwkw which i think is around 225 kw at the crank out of a 93 soarer motor.
i think the LS1 is a great motor i have driven a fair few and they do sure go. i do have reserves about them some are definatlet better than others. thier tolerances are not the best. but things like cams are readerley availabe and cheaper than the$1500 or so you will pay for 1uz cams.

researck gearboxes and adaptbilty before you choose. all that said i woulsd not have anything else ( qF45 the nissan 4.5L might be worth a look but there is so little information out there you would be doing a lot fo r&d)

good luck

Thanks for the helpful information.... yeah the nissan VH45 have extremely good heads but a weak bottom end. Both the 1UZ and LS1 have 6 bolt mains and are extremely strong. There are guys on LS1.com.au driving round with 440rwkW with stock bottom ends and have done so for a long time without issue.....

Main reason i am interested in the 1UZ is because i like the bulletproof reliability i have heard about.... and the fact that they sound unbelievable... i also thought they would be lighter than an LS1 but this seems to not be the case.... I guess in the end it will come down to which conversion will be cheaper and easiest.... As i have said i want to preserve the handling of the car, so thats of the utter most importance...

Can i Ask, what does it take to increase the rpm on these 1UZ-FE to say 8000RPM readline ????

 

[Lextreme II]

Cheapest: The 1UZFE can go as low as 375.00. I am not sure about the LS1. Modification after installation would be LS1... . Lots of aftermarket support and parts. Very limited with the 1UZ... However, 1UZ is a very high tech engine and love to be blown.

 

[Zuffen]

It makes sense that the UZ-FE weighs more than the LS1.

We have 4 cams as against 1 cam.

We have 32 valves, springs, retainers and followers as against 16.

You are talking bulletproof reliability here. Sure a few LS1 boys are getting mega grunt out of their motors (I resisted calling them boat anchors) but how many other LS1's have spat their guts all over the raod/track? When was the last time you heard of a UZ-FE dropping it's bundle. Ask the Forum if anyone has managed to blow a motor thru driving it hard. I don't think you will find anyone.

To rev to 8,000 rpm you need to go aftermarket ECU as the factory unit will quit around 7,2500.

As power drops off after 6,2500 there really isnt much point in trying for 8,000 unles you have improved the engines breathing. At least you would know if it did rev to 8,000 it is happy as against dead.