1UZ doesn't start (igniter?/timing?)

[melvinmelvin]

We do have a tutorial section http://www.lextreme.com/tech_maintenance.html

Thanks a lot,
have just printed the stuff.

This looks way better than a couple of other tutorials I found on www.

The 2nd part of the tutorial ought to make it possible, even for me,
to hack this.

(the first part largely doesn't apply, as I have no servo, no AC,
and a totally different arrangement for fans and oil/water cooling etc etc)

 

[melvinmelvin]

camshaft pulleys were slightly off
after fixing, the result is still the same, with both ecus
shit

 

[gloverman]

I am still thinking you have a coil fault. I would be double checking the coil plugs aren't damaged. The top one often gets damaged while repairs are being done. Coil faults commonly cause a start then stall situation.

 

[melvinmelvin]

I am still thinking you have a coil fault. I would be double checking the coil plugs aren't damaged. The top one often gets damaged while repairs are being done. Coil faults commonly cause a start then stall situation.

right,
thanks, will do.

I actually have a brand new complete set of leads/cables,
its not out of its plastic packing yet

will put 'em on

 

[melvinmelvin]

I did (put 'em on), and no noticeable difference what so ever

will haul the engine again Monday and try get hold of a Toyota electrician

 

[extractors]

Ignitors do die from time to time, with no warning, have you tried that ?
Have you actually replaced the coils ? It's unlikely to be a lead or plug issue.

You can easily check for spark either way.

 

[gloverman]

Another interesting issue I found the other day that I didn't know was possible is the cam gears can be swapped around. This was done by someone not following good practise when working on an engine. This will allow the engine to start then stop due to the timing being way out. easy to check by flicking a timing light onto the engine

 

[melvinmelvin]

Ignitors do die from time to time, with no warning, have you tried that ?
Have you actually replaced the coils ? It's unlikely to be a lead or plug issue.

You can easily check for spark either way.

But isn't it rather unlikely that both igniters and/or both coils pass out
at the same time?

(No I haven't replaced any of them)

Could by a couple from a scrapyard but it is now Chinese New Year here
and most scrapyards are closed.
Things doesn't pick up here before Monday next week.

At leas the mill is out and up in a work bench, ready for whatever.

 

[melvinmelvin]

Another interesting issue I found the other day that I didn't know was possible is the cam gears can be swapped around. This was done by someone not following good practise when working on an engine. This will allow the engine to start then stop due to the timing being way out. easy to check by flicking a timing light onto the engine

What exactly do you mean by cam gears? Not the pulleys?

 

[melvinmelvin]

Assuming the engine ran well before the oil pump change it should run well now unless something has gone back together incorrectly,

I suspect the timing belt has been installed incorrectly. Check the timing marks all line up. As your mechanic did it I'd have him double check it.

One question; why was the oil pump replaced? They seem to last forever.

Pin 4 on the igniter is the tacho feed and pin 2 where you're getting your tacho feed goes to the ecu at pin 67.

I don't believe pins 2 & 3 have the same coloured wires.

Make sure you're looking at the pins in the right order.

On the run for 3 seconds and stop it sounds a little like it's running on the cold start valve or the fuel pump high speed circuit and dying when the fuel pump drops back to low speed.

Hmm,
tried Pin 4 yesterday, did not result in any movement of the needle on
the RPM instrument.
The RPM instrument still works fine with Pin 2 though.

 

[melvinmelvin]

The engine worked fine yesterday and the day before.
(will put it back into the boat tomorrow)

Surely, early on the timing was way off.
However, the problem persisted after the timing belt was corrected.

It actually seems like it boiled down to a partly faulty fuel pump.
(A 2 year old Merc Benz pump.)
The fuel pump starts when the ignition is switched on.
It pumps fine, fills the maritime fuel filter, can see it through the glass cup.
Apparently it slowed down too much after a wee while of meeting resistance/working against pressure. Didn't manage to keep sufficient pressure up.

Luckily had a spare Merc Benz fuel pump at home, changed the pump and the
engine seemed to work fine, at least yesterday.

Will see what its up to tomorrow.

 

[melvinmelvin]

Just a comment on some of the timing belt tutorials I have seen.

They use terms like left and right.
Clockwise and anticlockwise.
Seen from the driver's side
Seen from the passenger's side.
etc.

Not very precise terms.
Whether the driver is sitting on the left or right side usually varies
with whether the car is made for a right side drive country or left side drive country.

Guess it would be easier if it was made clear that all terms left/right/clock etc
refers to looking at the engine from the back of the engine (or similar).

 

[melvinmelvin]

Just an observation, for what its worth.

Have now had my 1UZ almost 3 years.
Have had serious electrical related problems 3 times.
Have needed a Toyota electrician twice.

Without being clever with wiring myself I find the 1UZ a bit tricky
and demanding.
(have put a lot of effort/time/money into protecting wires and electronics
from dirt and water)

In the area where I live there are several boats similar to mine, about 20 or 25 I guess.
Some 5-10 years ago several of the boats had 1UZ. Now there is one guy left
(except for me) that runs 1UZ. And he is running on LPG, i.e. less wires, no AFM etc.

The other guys have, almost without exception, converted to a 4 cylinder Isuzu CBD diesel.
The Isuzu is costing more than 4 times more than 1UZ.
And diesel is way more expensive than LPG.
But they are happy getting away from wire/electrical problems.

Personally I hope to get hold of a Toyota 1VD (V8 diesel) later this year.
(common rail, so still has some wiring but not a lot)
Way higher torque than the 1UZ. High torque is always useful in a boat.

 

[melvinmelvin]

Igniter shit again:

Have had problems getting the mill to fire.

Discovered today that one of the cables on one of the igniters was broken,
might be the likely cause.

Now, the cable was broken off just 3 millimeters from the rubber seal inserted
into the igniter.
These igniter cables, can they be taken out by pulling the cable? So that the
rubber seal and the plyg and cable comes out, or are there other ways?

(didn't try anything, it was getting dark when I discovered this, will look
again tomorrow)
Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[melvinmelvin]

IGNITERS;

Are the two igniters identical? Do they perform the same tasks?

Do the igniters perform other tasks than guiding the ignition?

(I have 4 cables on each igniter.
On one of the igniters one of the cable holes is
plugged with a rubber plug without a cable hole.
On the other one, one of the cables is just cut.
I assume this is OK since it has been that way since I bought the engine.)

Anyone know how I can get the rubber plugs with accompanying metall sockets out
of the igniter plug? So that I can replace the broken cable, and also another cable
which doesn't look too good.
Can I use force on the metall socket in order to push out the rubber plug?

The broken cable was the cable that I use for taking out the feed signal to the RPM gauge. Is that cable likely to affect ignition on 4 cylinders only or all 8 cylinders?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[Zuffen]

The igniters are the same and the plugs can be swapped between them and it won't affect the engine.

The plug with 5 wires carries the tacho feed in the black wire. The cut wire is most likely the tacho feed. Not having the tacho feed connected won't affect the running of the engine.

I've never tried to remove any pins from those plugs so don't know if you can de-pin them.

If you have a spare plug (lots of Toyotas have the same igniters, but be aware there are two types) just cut the tail and solder it on.

Good luck.

 

[cribbj]

Melvin, wish I could help, but I've never used the stock ignition or ignitors on the 1UZ, nor the stock ECU.

It seems you're having more than your share of issues with this setup, and maybe it's because it's in a boat and subject to more vibration/moisture/corrosion, etc.

I think you'd be time & money ahead if you considered removing the OEM stuff and going with something aftermarket and a simpler ignition setup, etc.

But Gloverman is your man for troubleshooting - especially the OEM stuff, and he could certainly fix you up with a better aftermarket setup.

Hope you get it sorted

 

[melvinmelvin]

Melvin, wish I could help, but I've never used the stock ignition or ignitors on the 1UZ, nor the stock ECU.

It seems you're having more than your share of issues with this setup, and maybe it's because it's in a boat and subject to more vibration/moisture/corrosion, etc.

I think you'd be time & money ahead if you considered removing the OEM stuff and going with something aftermarket and a simpler ignition setup, etc.

But Gloverman is your man for troubleshooting - especially the OEM stuff, and he could certainly fix you up with a better aftermarket setup.

Hope you get it sorted

thanks for responding

will pop off to a couple of scrapyards tomorrow and see if I can get hold of
a couple of ignitors with plugs and cables in place

there are two-three pretty good electricians around that I know, but they are sought after people and have waiting lists



yep, issues are plentiful

vibration I think is pretty much minimal, its remarkable what can be taken
up by the engine beams/mount and the water

sun, wind and rain are serious issues
insulation has a limit for how much sunshine they fancy
when its raining cats and dogs and blowing like hell water seeps in all over

and the rain is not clean, too much industry around Bangkok, its almost
acid rain.
ordinary stainless steel (304) actually rusts, marine grade stainless (316) can
take it

getting a bit bored with this, am seriously considering importing a 2nd hand
Toyota 1VD from the US, common rail, but still - must have a lot fewer electrical thingies

 

[gloverman]

The Wires come out of the plugs by removing by popping the retaining clip on the front.

There are two different shaped ignitor plugs. One is more rounded than the other.

Some ignitors can be swapped between different ECU's but some will cause an issue. I recommend using to correct ones where possible.

To remove the cables some sockets have a plastic cover on the front. Remove this and it reveals a small retaining clip. Push the clip out while pulling the cable out the back. The other style doesn't have the cover so the clip is easy to see. I can do a video next week if you want.

I often have new pins for the plugs or for most of the plugs on the engine I have complete new plugs.

One big issue I see is the looms(harness) on these engine are 20-25 years old. Some of the looms I pull apart are in really bad condition. When I do an aftermarket I use all new plugs with new wire from ECU to sensor with very few joins.

Good Luck

 

[melvinmelvin]

The Wires come out of the plugs by removing by popping the retaining clip on the front.

There are two different shaped ignitor plugs. One is more rounded than the other.

Some ignitors can be swapped between different ECU's but some will cause an issue. I recommend using to correct ones where possible.

To remove the cables some sockets have a plastic cover on the front. Remove this and it reveals a small retaining clip. Push the clip out while pulling the cable out the back. The other style doesn't have the cover so the clip is easy to see. I can do a video next week if you want.

I often have new pins for the plugs or for most of the plugs on the engine I have complete new plugs.

One big issue I see is the looms(harness) on these engine are 20-25 years old. Some of the looms I pull apart are in really bad condition. When I do an aftermarket I use all new plugs with new wire from ECU to sensor with very few joins.

Good Luck

thanks

yes, my loom looks like double ***** an incredible number of solderings
in it, but they are all strong, I have tested every single one for strength

my plugs (or sockets rather) do not have an "inspection hatch".


went to my fav, workshop in my fav. scrapyard today
got hold of 2 sockets with 5 wires in each, 10-15 centimeters long,
so plenty wire fr soldering
the chap showed me how to get the cables out

all for free

normally scrapyards charge 100 money a plug,
this is the 3rd time he gives me plugs for free, 5 in total
must remember to bring a 6-pack beer next time I go

a 6-pack is about 220 money, 5 plugs would normally be charged 500

that shop charges 3000 money for an ECU, most other shops charge 4000.


----
en passant:

in a post above I mentioned that I know of 2-3 really good electricians,
they have the full set of wiring diagrams for various UZs and they know
what they are doing (very very few electricians in Thailand know what they are doing, its all trial and error)

One of the guys have looked at my 1UZ 3 times. He has an interesting
way of charging. He charges 2000 money for his services 1 day, if he has to travel an hour to and from thats included- Highway toll is included.
If he fixes the problem in 10 minutes, the charge is 2000.
If he has to chip in a 10 bour day, the charge is 2000.
I asked him about this once. He said he is happy with this charging scheme,
in 90 % of the cases problems are sorted in less than 30 minutes.
And in far above 50% of the cases the problem is not electrical but down
to some ordinary car mechanic stuff.