Slide Plate Throttle Set Up ?

[COFFEE]

Guys,
I may sound a little uneducated, i know.
A couple of years ago @ Summernats in Canberra in saw an interesting creation.
I can't remember what it was called nor the best way to descirbe it so please bare with me.
But it was a very basic quad throttle bodie set up, but the unique part was there was no buttiflies.
It was say a sandwich of plates, the outer two were fixed whilst the inner sandwiched plate slid.
Now the these plates had were in between the heads and tube runners and had holes machined straight threw them.
When the sandwhiched plate was fully slid in one direction the holes all lined up and when slid the opperset way the holes were closed, hence acting as a quad throttle set up !
The set up i saw was for a commodore 5ltr. The complete manifold was about $5000, all cnc machined with carbonfibre bellmouth runners.

The benifit was that the throttles were so thin they saved a lot of height isssues, no butterfly so no restriction and it can be machined to suite what ever size you required ( Perfect match to head port ).

Whilst i couldn't get my head around how they internally sealed the unit for intake leaks, i was wondering if any of these talented people on this site had considered making anything of the such nature ?

Whilst i don't have access to the machinery nor materials it seemed a very simple and cost effective item to make.

If anyone was interested in attempting to make or research such a thing could they give me a yell ?

Whilst i am a draftsman i would be more than happy to assist designing and drawing something up.

Regards

stephen

 

[cribbj]

Slide throttle carburetors used to be the rage in the 50's and 60's. SU's, Solexes, Dellorto's, Mikuni's, etc. all had models with slide throttles. Slides' great feature was that you could design the slots "any" way you wanted so you could tune your throttle opening as linear as you wanted. Butterfly valve carburetors have a very nonlinear flow characteristic, and there's no "tuning" of a butterfly.

Then along came EFI and mappable ECU's and real smart guys could program around a butterfly's inherent non-linear response. Nowadays you only see slides and their cousins, the "barrel" throttle bodies on dedicated racecars and racebikes. I'm still a big fan of both, and I think a slide based TB would solve lots of the problems that the under 30 crowd are having with mounting huge butterfly TB's on EFI based cars, and then they can't get a good tip-in anymore, no matter how finely they tune the ECU.

John

 

[COFFEE]

Cribbj,
Well now you will see i am only 26 and been into the car scene for the last ten years.
Up until this set up i had never seen the a slide throttle and was quite impressed with its simplicity and low profile.
I honestly don't understand why they aren't as commonly used as the butterfly type throttle.
Would any of the tallented/ creative guys out there making their own manifolds etc wish to look at designing and making a set up ?

Well i have a spare engine at home so i'm going to start measuring things up and design a set up for the motor.

If someone is interested in machining up the idea or assisting with creating a setup, please add to this string or e-mail me: [email protected]

Regards

Stephen

 

[Lambo]

Slide throttle body

Hi Coffee, have a look at this link, they have various models with various HP there are various views of the drawings on the left hand side of their page it may speed up the design process http://www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/products/efs45.htm
Regards
Lambo

 

[Red Supra]

John,
Tip in with a 4" wilson tb can be made crisp.
Were there any forced induction cars equipped with slide throttle plates?

 

[Zuffen]

I thik the Porsche 917 30 ran slide plate but it was the exception to every rule.

Slide plate is not worth the effort due to sealling problems.

Modern electronics makes them unnecessary.

You can be sure if Ferrari & Porsche don't use it it's for a good reason. Butterfly's work well.

 

[Cobolt]

Slide throttle plates can work wery good, a tuner-friend of mine here in Sweden has built this Manta for himself, (Turbo AND supercharger...) it has a individual sliding throttleplate construction and the throttle control and throttle response is awesome!!
(if you can work around the problems with sealing, and come up with a solotion that doesn´t get stucked (harsh, stick??) when the boost comes on and presses the plates against each other, the edge with throttleplates is less restriction on WOT)

Unfortunatley the text is in Swedish, but Check out the images and do take a close look at the finish (clean parts?) standards, the car is ALWAYS in this condition!!!
http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/start.asp?show=ea

Ronnie is a mecanical-genious and a master craftsman, check out what I mean by looking at his supercharged waterjet-boat project, he makes every part himself.
http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/start.asp?show=e

 

[Zuffen]

Beautiull workmanship.

What is it about you Scandinavians? Long dark winters and great workmanship.

Between your mate and Autronic you have the world beaten.

 

[Damien]

You could eat your dinner off that car - what a work of art! That's a different way of lowering a car having the tops of the shock towers poking through the bonnet.

 

[Cobolt]

About the shock towers - Ronnie dosn´t think anyway but "out of the box" it´s extremely interesting to study his solutions to various problems, different and wery much Ronnie! (in a good way that is!)

The most obscene part about that car, is that the builder claims a total cost of less than $20.000 - ofcourse labour is not included, parts/materials only, the fact that he custom makes most of the parts himself, gives him a materials cost on much, but it´s still a wery impressive budget!

And, on top of the outstanding finish, the car is DRIVEN!!! it´s defenetly NOT a showqueen..
(ofcourse not as daily driver, but on trackdays, the dragstrip and for FUN on the road - it is streetlegal.)

Some movies:
http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/start.asp?show=ec

The intakesound... hehe, enjoy! =D =D =D

(sorry for me going Offtopic, will stop with that now!)


.

 

[BlownV8]

here is another thought. Try a spin throttle.

http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~ddped/kblair.html

 

[COFFEE]

Gee, Haven't been on the site for ages.
Checked out the site Blown V8.
Very similar set up just that it rotates the sandwhich plate.

I have designed a set up using small ball bearings for the sandwich plate to roll on, this gets rid of the sticking problem.
The other issue i came across was how to make the unit air tight ? Well pretty much sorted that as well.
The external plates bolt tightly together all round and seal. The internal plate is located and slides on small ball bearing that roll in a machined track.
The center plate has an arm that protrudes through a cut out slot in the two external plates, this slot is sealed with 2 pins that are spring loaded to allow the arm to slid yet seal the air path.
My only area to sort is the amount of clearence needed for heat soak in the materials ?


Regards

Stephen

 

[Zuffen]

Stephen,

I think we all need photos.

 

[COFFEE]

Zuffen,
I realise this was some time ago. Am still interested in idea.
Photos i don't have, an imagination i do.
This is what my imagination lead to.
Please keep in mind this is just a conceptual design, so it probably needs some work.

For me the issue would working out the tolerances required whilst allowing for heat.

Regards

Stephen

 

[COFFEE]

Well Zuffen,

I wasn't very successfull with uploading the PDF file of my design.
It said the file was to large, 76mb. The file types size limit is 19.5mb. The file zipped was still 73mb.
Not sure how to get the idea up on the thread, any suggestions ?

Regards

Stephen

 

[svpmx83]

this is from the 2004 shelby cobra concept and from watching the video on the project build they have used delrin or similar to both allow the plates to slide and to seal the assembly

I think this one is a Harrop creation and is probably the one you saw

 

[COFFEE]

Steve,
The Harrop one looks pretty close, can't be sure as it was all carbon fiber.

What is Delrin ?

 

[svpmx83]

It's an engineering nylon and used to be known as Synthetic Stone.
Quote from DuPont: "Today, Delrin® is a mainstay of DuPont's engineering polymers line and is widely acclaimed as a lightweight but durable low wear, low friction plastic for engineering and automotive applications."