TT 1UZ power level issues.

[FoPar]

it won't pool, don't hit it with too much, if you are worried run a 50-50 mix or 70 methanol 30 water. methanol vaporises at 130F, your IAT at will be 200F+ there will be nothing left by the time it gets to your intercooler, most will be gone by the time it gets out of the compressor housing.

 

[rdm20fan]

My intercooler is about 3 inches from the turbos. Plus I would still have to run it through the AFM. Alcohol is corrosive. I don't want to spray it on the AFM.
If I do it, it will be in each runner, and I’m already adding a lot of ethanol at this point.
I don’t know if it’s a benefit. That’s kind of my question.
I like the idea, and it does a great job of removing heat, but on my set up, I don’t think it’s going to work without causing issues down the road. If I spray it that far up front.

 

[gloverman]

Water meth has been given us the desired effects. One was a Supercharged 13B Rotary PP. Again we were told like you it wouldn't work by lots of people that had tried and couldn't get results. I did manage to find out one of my friends that builds very fast rotary racecars had done one with good results. We could pretty much watch the air temps dropping as the water meth came in. Two nozzle post charger , 50/50 mix over petrol. Sorry Can't remember nozzle size on this one but it will be getting a bigger tank as it only had enough mix for 20 minutes of running. This mix made around 8% difference to my mixtures. It was in a development stage with other issues on the first tuning session and we had a play with in to see how it responded at different boost levels. Second tuning session we improved further. We did runs with it off and got excessive air temps and compared them with the water/meth to see large reductions in air temp. Myself and the owner are now happy with the present tune to run the engine in and get the vehicle legal before we push it more.

Another one was a big block supercharged jet boat. 1200cc a minute with 50/50 mix over av gas. Again a noticable difference in mixtures. Again only 20 minutes of run time but thats plenty for the race up and down the river at 7 minutes each way. 8 nozzles post charger. Air temps rocket down. Some boats are crazy and I would freak a lot of car guys out if I started talking about how high the air temps get. In a car I'm happy with 20s and low 30's. If I could get that in some of the sprintboats I would be extremely happy.

I haven't played with Methonal injection over Ethonal base personally but if you are getting higher than desired air temps then it should reduce them. I prefer individual nozzle but also see benefits of injecting it earlier as Fopar has suggested.


If you have worked out you have around a E60 effective fuel then in theory stoich is around 11/11.2 to 1 so best power under boost would be somewhere in the 10's so mixture might be pretty close. Every tuner has different idea's on what "best" is so work out what works for you and your engine. The guys on here have had fantastic results with their vehicles, each with different internal spec , management , fuel systems etc. I have a set of base rules I start with and work from there.

 

[FoPar]

it's crazy what temps get to. I've seen Pro Mod guys running 50psi boost with IAT over 400F+, by the time it gets to the valve it has dropped down to 100F. Earlier you can inject fuel etc, more time it has to cool down.

I like pre-turbo with higher water content as it does least to mess with tune, whereas post etc I'm always worried you run out, that injection was required by the engine for fuelling, you can end up hurting the motor.

Ethanol doesn't cool anywhere like methanol, if using alcohol then use meth. Methanol cools IAT, water cools cylinders.

 

[FoPar]

Work on a scale you know. At the end of the day every scale is a % of lambda. I know lambda, but majority of people on know it thru GAS scale, so we run E85 to GAS scale, makes no difference whatsoever.

 

[gloverman]

I prefer gas scale too but will swap between others.

No intercooler on one boat and we see normal temps of 200F and that is fine. We are seeing 266F at the end of the runs so water injection is being considered. First to keep the blades in one piece.

We all have pretty much the same goal with our tunes which is still having an engine which runs at the end of the day of use.

 

[rdm20fan]

Thanks guys, that is a lot of helpful info. My buddy is working on a TT 4.0L audi. He is only using a meth/h2o kit, and only putting a few PSi on boost on the motor. I will relay a lot of this info to him.
I don't have an AIT sensor on the car. after a run the intercooler, and intake pipe are cool to the touch, and right after a run under boost (When the E85 is spraying) i can put my hand on top of the intake manifold.
this is leading me to beleive that the temp is going in the right direction when the E85 is on.

I do like your idea FoPar. I have been thinking of building another car, and I might try to put that in the next set up.
I think the SC is kind of done. It fast enough right now for a street car. (My wife hates it. LOL)

I'm trying to convince my buddy into helping me build a 1-2uz toyota pickup for the drag strip. So fer he doesn't like the idea of a pickup.

 

[XR8tt]

If the compressor is on the small side..
Injecting pre turbo helps in compressors efficiency..
But must be high pressure with proper jets..

Just be aware water doesn't compress...

 

[rdm20fan]

If the compressor is on the small side..
Injecting pre turbo helps in compressors efficiency..
But must be high pressure with proper jets..

Just be aware water doesn't compress...

Good to know. My turbos are a little large for a 4.0L.
60mm wheels. Not huge, but I wouldn't call them small.

 

[ATS_SCOTT]

Work on a scale you know. At the end of the day every scale is a % of lambda. I know lambda, but majority of people on know it thru GAS scale, so we run E85 to GAS scale, makes no difference whatsoever.

^^^This!^^^

To the OP, sorry I did not get to read through all posts, and I have a ton of experience with E85 on boosted 3sgte's, NOT the UZ platform. So take the following for what its worth.

In my experience with E85, i have lifted heads, and had no sign of detonation. Initially I thought i just had some low grad E85 more like E70, and it may have been. But what I found on the 3s, is there is no real octane limitation on E85, but there is certainly a timing limitation. I used to lift heads in the 25psi, sub 600HP range, because i was just running in more timing until we stopped seeing gains. Fast forward 6 years, and i have learned to run about the same timing as pump gas, and just turn up the boost.

My personal MR2 is currently running pump E85 (last test was E75) at 43-49psi PTE6266, 766 HP 698FT/LB TQ. I have an MLS HG, and ARP L-19 head studs. And this is just a 4 cylinder, camry block, 3s head.

So what im saying is E85 is not an invitation to just keep running in timing, but it does absolutely love more boost, provided your fuel system can supply it. I also suspect your ignition issues are due to being too rich, for example on a gasoline AFR scale i'll run 12.5-8:1 under boost on e85. It IS the only engine I have seen that likes it that lean. In the low 11:1 range it will have ignition issues, lean it out and they go away.

 

[Pantera EFI]

Quality Accurate Ignition

First, my observation is that this application is SOON to require greater ignition energy to ignite the fuel/air/water in the cylinder.
That solution is the fit my IGN-1A coil.
There is also the requirement of the plug boot to COMPLETELY cover the spark plug insulator touching the "steel" of the plug.
This should prevent HV leaks into the cylinder head.

There is another question that can be answered by engine crankshaft Target Wheel description. (OEM ECU/Stand Alone ECU)

What is the tooth count of the TW AND where is the missing tooth section ?

We fit our ECU on the 5.7 Tundra Engine for BAJA racing.
This uses a 36 tooth TW with a Crankshaft Sensor on the flywheel, all OEM

Lance

 

[rdm20fan]

^^^This!^^^

To the OP, sorry I did not get to read through all posts, and I have a ton of experience with E85 on boosted 3sgte's, NOT the UZ platform. So take the following for what its worth.

My personal MR2 is currently running pump E85 (last test was E75) at 43-49psi PTE6266, 766 HP 698FT/LB TQ. I have an MLS HG, and ARP L-19 head studs. And this is just a 4 cylinder, camry block, 3s head.

So what im saying is E85 is not an invitation to just keep running in timing, but it does absolutely love more boost, provided your fuel system can supply it. I also suspect your ignition issues are due to being too rich, for example on a gasoline AFR scale i'll run 12.5-8:1 under boost on e85. It IS the only engine I have seen that likes it that lean. In the low 11:1 range it will have ignition issues, lean it out and they go away.

Thanks ATS scott. I am still thinking that I compromised one of the head gaskets when I took the stock head bolts out and replaced them with studs, but i may be wrong. I plan on taking the heads off this winter, and looking into that more.
To quickly bring you up to speed, I'm running a stock lexus ECU, and stock injectors. I have a second injector controller that runs a a complete seperate fuel system. which I run E85 in. second tank, pump and jinjectors. I don't think I'm running out of fuel as the second pump and injectors are good for 900WHP at a low psi 35-40 I belive and 14-1500 at 70psi.

You have given me some good food for thought. With my stock system running pump gas, and the second set running E-85 I think I just need to play with the AFR to see where she likes it best. just under 10:1 seems to be best for know, but I'm still learning.

First, my observation is that this application is SOON to require greater ignition energy to ignite the fuel/air/water in the cylinder.
That solution is the fit my IGN-1A coil.
There is also the requirement of the plug boot to COMPLETELY cover the spark plug insulator touching the "steel" of the plug.
This should prevent HV leaks into the cylinder head.

There is another question that can be answered by engine crankshaft Target Wheel description. (OEM ECU/Stand Alone ECU)

What is the tooth count of the TW AND where is the missing tooth section ?

We fit our ECU on the 5.7 Tundra Engine for BAJA racing.
This uses a 36 tooth TW with a Crankshaft Sensor on the flywheel, all OEM

Lance

Panreta, I agree with you. I'm susprised I've gotten away with the stock timing to this point.
I have a first gen 1UZ. dual distributors, not the coil on plug. I think I need to look into the dual MSD system.
I honestly haven't spent a lot of time researching it.

 

[rdm20fan]

I do have a couple updates.

The car hit a new best of 11.01 @ 128MPH and a best trap speed of 133mph. I was slightly bummed that I couldn't get an 10. (So close)

I ended up breaking the TT Supra auto diff.

Pics of the broken diff.

Then we decided that the car needed to look a little better then she was.
She was really in pretty good condition for a 23 yo car that lived its life in Chicago winters.

Photos of the paint n bodywork in progress.

 

[Zuffen]

You need to change your time and speed in your sig.

 

[rdm20fan]

You need to change your time and speed in your sig.

Done.
;-)

 

[BlackUZZ31]

that was always going to happen with a T1 Torsen and slicks! Impressive destruction none the less!

 

[rdm20fan]

that was always going to happen with a T1 Torsen and slicks! Impressive destruction none the less!

LOL yeah it was impressive getting the car back on the trailer with a locked rear-end, and slicks.

I'm actually impressed with the # of hard launches I did get with the Torsen. I thought it was going to come apart way before that.