Porting and boosting advice please

[Suprastylecat]

Hello Everyone

I hope you are all well, this is my first thread so please bare with me, i apologise in advance if im posting in the wrong place etc

I have a mk4 supra running the non vvti 1uzfe first gen, currently running NA

I have 2 main questions although i may get side tracked ; ) soooooooo.............

1 - Im eventually looking to boost this lump and am leaning towards a super charger how ever i do not seem to be able to source the required manifold any where, does any one have any advice? Failing that has any one had any experience with the pro chargers??

2 - In the mean time while my bank balance recovers a little bit im looking to try and optimise what horses may be left lurking under the hood. Im running an aftermarket stand alone ecu, cold intake and straight through exhaust system allready, im wondering if any one here has had their inlet and heads ported etc and wether it was a noticible gain and worth the money???

Any info or advice is welcome and very appreciated or if you just want to ask me about the build id be happy to chat, thank alot

Peace out

 

[cribbj]

Hello 'Cat & welcome. Congratulations on fitting the 1UZ to your Supra - that's been one of my ongoing projects for longer than I care to think about. To answer your questions:

1. Try Bullet Cars in Australia - they sell a complete supercharger kit for the 1UZ, but be sure you're sitting down and you have a strong heart before you ask for the price. You can occasionally find their used kits & others advertised around the net. Personally, I think the Roots or screw type superchargers are the way to go for this engine, to maximise its low end torque, but centrifugals like the Procharger have been popular too. Thing about the centrifugals, is they have a turbocharger type of boost curve, so you're not going to get much low end benefit from them.

2. The early 1UZ's heads don't flow nearly as well as the later ones, but to pull your engine just to port the heads I think would be a waste of time, money & energy on your part.

I'm surprised that you went to the trouble of swapping the 2JZ out for the 1UZ and not boosting it to begin with? What's the story behind that - was it intended just to get the car up & running & sorted first, then boost later?

 

[Suprastylecat]

Thank you for your reply, I was starting to worry

Well the original plan was a gte swap as mine originally was just the ge NA how ever it was proving very difficult to get a decent engine and box in the UK and was looking like importing them from the states or Canada was going to be the best option. Then some one mentioned a 1uzfe v8 swap, I didn't know anything about them but did some research and the feed back was really Good so I thought why not?? It's a bit different!! In hind sight it's been a pig of a build and I'd never do it again, I've had a few people let me down with shoddy work and it's cost a lot more and took a lot longer than it should have but I've come so far with it now that is like to see it through. I've had a lot of hate thrown my way too because of the build, apparently it's quite controversial to remove a 2j, ha ha!

Any way getting back to the subject.......... So removing heads is in your opinion not worth it?? And inlet?? Is it one of those jobs where you'd need to do both or none at all??

Again the general feed back is that these motors love a super charger and it's keeping inline with the something different route but sourcing the inlet manifold is proving tricky which is why a pro charger was mentioned to me, they seem expensive for what you get but I guess you save a lot on labour and fabrication compared to a turbo install.

Regarding what you said about the "charger curve I'm actually looking for a bit more power later on as it pulls away from still really well, in fact it pulls like a train but runs out of puff pretty quick so maybe that's the way to go??

Any thoughts on nos?? The masses seem very very divided on this matter, love or hate.

Thanks again for replying, it's much appreciated

 

[cribbj]

Yea, sorry for the late reply. I had meant to reply to you straight away but just couldn't find the time.

I think the 1UZ is the perfect engine for the Supra because it's such a heavy pig, and needs a lot more low end torque to get it launched than the 2JZ can deliver, which is why the car had to have such a short 1st gear and sequential turbos to get it going. Of course you had even a worse case with the naturally aspirated GE motor. Which transmission are you running now?

I wouldn't do anything else to your setup until you're ready to boost it. The heads don't flow well without a lot of porting, so that's why the engine responds so well to forced feeding If you're after power later in the curve, then the Procharger is the way to go, and with that supercharger, you can incorporate a FMIC like a turbocharged setup to keep the charge air cool.

To paraphrase an old Rick James / Dave Chappelle quote "NOS is a helluva drug" Just enough is never enough, so a 50 shot leads to a 100 shot, then a 150 shot, and then..........BOOM. With these engines, you're probably OK up to a 100 shot, but you're going to need forged internals if you go much above that.

 

[Suprastylecat]

No worries, I'm sure your very busy. I appreciate the advice as I am a bit of an amateur ; )

I'm running an rx8 6 speed box at the moment, I was running the original w58 box but 1st and 2nd were on there way out and the costs to replace or repair just didn't add up, it was lots of little things like that that pushed me towards the uz swap.

I was looking at superchargers again last night after what you said and I'm pretty convinced the pro charger is the way to go for me, installation seems pretty straight forward as well and I like the idea of the front mount intercooler.

I'm still keen on the nos idea as well but the recharging is a pain as i know I'm going to steam through it! Ha ha.
Did you say your dropping a 1uz in a supra also??

 

[Zuffen]

Not sure an RX8 box is man enough for your engine.

My Son has an RX8 with 100K kms on it and the box has a nasty rattle when idling, which tells me it has a shot bearing on the first motion shaft.

 

[Suprastylecat]

I totally agree, I went with a recommendation of a so called "expert" but pretty sure it's not going to last that long, good thing is they are available any where and very cheap to replace.

A lot of forums are saying up to 500hp which I doubt I'll ever get to any way, it is the better of the 2, running the 6 speed box but agree it's not an ideal set up! So far I have to admit it's been brilliant, very smooth and I've launched it a few times. Bearings were replaced before it went in along with a new uprated clutch.

 

[cribbj]

I understand a number of folks have been trying Tremec's in lieu of the V160 due to the Tremec's better availability and much more reasonable cost. On paper they look like a viable alternative, but in the real world I don't know how well they're working out. Personally, I've never liked the V160 because of its very close ratios, and extremely short 1st gear. I would much prefer having an engine with a better torque curve, and a good 5 speed or even 4 speed so you're not constantly rowing the shifter....... But then my other car has a 5.5 liter V12 that has so much torque, it can be launched smoothly from 2nd gear.......

Yes, I have a MKIV 1UZ swap going on, however it's more on life support, than really going on. A few years ago I became involved with those red cars from Italy, which diverted most of my attention away from the Supra project which I really regret. So the 1UZ Supra is on my "to do" list when I find the time. I'm interested and encouraged to hear you say the naturally aspirated 1UZ pulls well from a stop, as I had concerns, that even with 4.0 liters, it wouldn't do an adequate job getting the 3800lb Supra launched.

Does that RX8 tranny have a really short 1st gear? Or do you know what your overall ratios are from gearbox to the rear tires?

 

[Suprastylecat]

Ha Ha, on life support, brilliant : D

I can sympathise though as this build was a nightmare, it didnt help that the first guy I went to pretty much took my money, ran and left me with a mountain of shoddy work to sort out so almost everything on this build has been done 2 or 3 times which has destroyed my budget!! Very harsh life lesson there : /

One thing I can put my hand on my heart and say is that from stationary it pulls brilliantly, and mines still not running completely 100%, it's over fueling slightly and I'm waiting on some dyno time to tweak the map up so surely will only run better after??

As for the box I feel a 6 speed was the wrong choice, the gears are way too short and you are constantly changing gear, although the sound it makes does make shifting down very satisfying.

I looked on the Australian bullet cars and yes it is very expensive. I really am leaning towards the pro charger, the general feed back on them is really positive.

 

[cribbj]

Condolences on your losses, but I'm glad to know we in the US don't have exclusive rights on shady tuners and their shoddy work.

1UZ's are definitely not cheap builds, as both Zuffen & I can testify (as can nearly everyone else on this board), but when you're done, you have something with a bit more panache than just another SBC swap. Although if I had it to do over again, I'd look hard at the DOHC Ford Coyote engine, if it would even fit in the engine bay. I also have a V12 BMW engine with ITB's that is looking for a home, and I go hot & cold on whether to try & stuff that in the Supra instead of the 1UZ......

Which ECU are you currently running with your setup, and how are you handling the idle air system?

 

[Suprastylecat]

Yes it's cost A LOT more than expected, I know project cars generally go over budget but like I said, the first guy I went to knocked me and my budget sideways! I couldn't believe there is people out there so ruthless that supposedly share your same passion!!

On the flip side I've found some truly awesome guys now that have basically brought this build back from the brink which has restored alot of Faith : D

It's running a megasquirt v3.0 ecu, I've heard a lot of mixed reviews on the megasquirt but it was the ecu that came with the lump when I bought it so ran with it and it's been absolutely fine, no problems at all.

Ok so idling is a bit of an issue at the moment as I mentioned it's over fueling slightly which im waiting on dyno time for, it's like warming up a turbo, give it 5-10 mins and warm up (with a little bit of throttle) and once at temp she runs fine, the MAF has been deleted and it's running on MAP at present.

Do you have any pictures or links to your build? Is it on Instagram or anything? Would be cool to see it.

 

[cribbj]

I had loads of pics here on Lextreme before Photobucket decided to go from being a free hosting site to what they are now. I'll try to post up some pics of the engine here in your thread if you don't mind.

Good to hear the MS 3.0 is working well for you. Did you retain the stock idle air control system or is there an aftermarket idle valve on there?

 

[Suprastylecat]

Ahhh that's a bummer, shame. Yeah of course, get as many pics on here as you can, if I can figure it out I'll post some too.

The ecu has been fine, the feedback seems to be that some die hard tuners don't like them due to them being a bit DIY.

If I remember rightly I'm not sure the idle control is wired in but I'm not 100%, I certainly haven't purchased an after market unit so if it is running one it'll be the stock piece.

How did you find altering the sump? This was another bit of a sore subject with the "expert" i mentioned before. Have you retained all the air con or done away with it? I've done away with mine. What about exhaust system? What have you gone for?

 

[cribbj]

I'm not nearly as far along on the project to be thinking about some of the items you mentioned. I had built two engines, dynoed them, and then the project went on the back burner. One engine was built as a "mule" to learn from on the engine dyno, and we certainly learned a lot from it, and the 2nd engine was built to incorporate all the lessons learned. One very important lesson we learned is that when you resurface the deck & heads, you change the geometry of the engine and its cam timing, and sometimes significantly if enough material is taken off, so it's then a virtual requirement to have some sort of adjustable timing gears.

I'm not aware of any sump interference issues - can you expand on that? And being in Houston TX, I do expect to retain the A/C system.

For the exhaust, it'll no doubt be a custom system, starting with long tube headers, probably some high flow cats if there's room, then an "X" pipe with dual mufflers & tailpipes, each ending in twin tips. From the rear there would then be no doubt there's a "V-something" under the hood.

 

[Suprastylecat]

Awesome man, wish I had the knowledge any time to dig deep like that! Unfortunately boring stuff like work and family hinder that ha ha : D

For sure your gonna need that AC, being over in the UK it rarely gets used any way, now window wipers, that's something we couldn't live without over here!!! I'm sure my sump was fouling something, steering column or sub frame maybe, either way it needed altering!! I've heard a rumour that if you cross the pipes like you said it sounds louder and even more awesome! Ha ha! I'm running a twin custom system, it's either 2" Into 2.5" twins or 2.5" into 3" can't remember exactly, no cats or silencers, to say it sounds awesome is an understatement and turns heads everywhere I go.