melvinmelvin
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- Bangkok
done,
started snappy, good, now to change of cylinder heads, will take some time, cumbersome to work in a boat
1UZ in Thai longtail boat
- Thread starter melvinmelvin
- Start date
The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
done,
started snappy, good, now to change of cylinder heads, will take some time, cumbersome to work in a boat
In large diesel installations, say 20 000 / 30 000 /40 000 horsepowers and thereabouts.
(these are slow reving beasts - say 80-105 rpm)
On these installations it is not uncommon to watch the exhaust temperatures as a quick check that the cylinders are trotting along happily.
In particular one checks that temperature deviation between the cylinders is small.
Significant deviation in exhaust temperature between two cylinders is a sign that something is not as it should be,
something wrong with air/fuel mix, lax turbo pressure, leak somewhere, time for change of rings and / or honing cylinder etc etc.
smth wrong with fuel pre-heating or whatever
On a "modern" gasoline mill like 1UZ is it worth looking at the exhaust temperatures of each cylinder as hint of well ness or ack thereof?
Hmm, not sure what AFR is, air flow resistance?, if so - I guess even a minimal turbo would go a long way to sort that out.
Anyway, bank perspective, it seems a tad meager to assess the satisfaction of 8 cylinders on the basis of 2 measuring points.
Should one do that it would probably mean measuring EGT quite a distance from the cylinder head EX outlet.
In my case it would be tricky as I have 2 pipes serving each bank, the 4 outlets never merge.
This was just a shot in the dark from me. However, the past 7 months experience has shown me that it might be usefull to detect early that something is not as it should be.
right, thanks,
yes, if I keep below 2400 the consumption,
but when I pass 3000 (and upwards) then its brunch and free flow of juice.
I have arrangement for wet exhaust, currently not installed, but this is mostly for show and sound, or sound and show if you like,
the water is pumped into the pipes just before a S-bend about 40-50 cm before the pipe ends, shouldn't affect any sensor.
I assume the sensors would be close to the block.
CHANGED CYLINDER HEAD:
Changed the RH head yesterday, took a while. (and took a couple of days to thoroughly clean the two heads I bought)
Was pitch dark when finished, so just started briefly, without coolant, to ascertain that timing was OK - which it was.
Ran smoothly on 8.
Will tank up coolant and test more today.
Thanks.
Went OK I think.
Ran it for a couple of hours yesterday, mostly idling. Seemed quite fine.
No gasoline leaks, No coolant leaks, Charging well, Smoothly on all 8, oil cooler fans working as they should, coolant circulating as it should,
radiator fans starting / stopping as they should, instruments working as they should
quite pleased with that,
(couldn't fit the new RH camshaft cover, had to go back to the old cover - the cover has a 90-degree pipe fitting in it -
the OD of the new cover is much larger than the OD of the pipe fitting on the old cover)
Will do some more testing today while figuring out some electrical stuff.
The most difficult part of it all;
changing the oil seal just behind the timing belt pulley on the IN-cam,
took two powerful men more than an hour and 3 broken wrenches to get the nut off the camshaft,
unbelievable how hard that was fitted,
taking off the crankshaft pulley is peanuts in comparison
(off the top of my head torque crankshaft pulley 245 Nm and camshaft pulley 108 Nm)
My 1UZ is normally running with invisible exhaust.
Running yesterday the exhaust from the two RH pipes was not visible, not when idling and not when reving.
When idling I noticed some white (with a very slight touch of grey) from the pipe serving cyl 1 and 3.
When moving into position where I can "step on the pedal" I dont really see the end of the pipes,
when moving to the right side of the engine and using hand on the throttle arrangements to rev my angle
vis a vis the sun is so that I couldn't see any exhaust when idling or when revving.
(so its not much - but at least some when idling)
idling is about 400-450 revs
Maybe nothing to be desperate about maybe just some old sediments on valves, chambers, plugs that need
to be burnt off - dunno - or is this maybe an early tell tale that valve guide problems are underway in the LH cylinder head
(well, have a spare LH cylinder head now)
With the experience over the past 6-7 months now is when I wish I had 1 exhaust temp gauge per cylinder.
When the cylinder heads were purchased the scrapyard put some extras in the box,
among those were two Toyota sensors, one looks like a temp sensor one looks like a pressure sensor.
(I use my own sensor on my 1UZ)
Where are the Toyota water temp sensor/oil temp sensor and oil pressure sensor normally fitted?
(I take my oil temp and oil pressure from sensors in the oil cooler flange fitted where you find the oil filter,
the water temp I take from a sensor fitted in the bleeder on top of the water system at the front end of the engine.
Using the bleeder requires that the coolant system is 100% full, if not the sensor will measure partly water temp
and partly the internal airtemp when air is slurping past the bleeder - with less than full system one always has
the oil temp as a good guide)
Both Toyota sensors are fitted with electrical sockets with 2 pins.
I assume that the sensors discriminate between observations and communicate them by means of electrical resistance.
Which OHM ranges are Toyota sensors made for? Or does that vary from country to country?
weird indeed; replenished coolant a bit, startet like a shot!
not running smoothly, rather heavy white exhaust from pipe servicing cyl 2 and 4, running on 7 cyl.
some white smoke from pipe serving cyl 1 and 3 was there, automagic self repair over igh while I was sleeping
the white smoke from pipe serving cyl 2/4 gets less and less as the engine gets warmer and warmer
when at max temp, ie radiator fans start the smoke from the pipe is clearly visible but not much
dislike automagic self repair? yes, intensely
annoyed? very much so
It doesn't have to be cyl 1 or 3 that is not running, even if the smoke come from there. But so far I am assuming so.
But I'll look at that next time I bother to look. Rather easy to disconnect the injector plugs on these two cylinders and see if that has an effect.
Having an effect or not I will look at the two spark plugs, check that they spark and their condition - mebbe clean a bit.
Experienced smth quite similar 2-3 years back. At that the real culprit was flaky pressure from the fuel pump.
Have a spare fuel pump in my boxes, easy to swap.
Have a feeling that the Dry Martini will come early today.
cheers!
thanks, yes I saw that, several kits for 30-40 USD, it doesn't heal itself, but its much less smoke from cyl 2/4 when the engine is up to 80/90 degrees
just found out that the cylinder head gaskets are in stock here, will be delivered to my dealer on Monday, OK to have a spare set.
In the next entry I will summarise my findings so far
No, I did not reuse the gasket. The old gasket was Toyota original - only been used a few hours - since I changed Valve oil seals.
The gasket used was a gasket (new) made by a Bangkok gasket maker using the original Toyota gasket as template.
Re condensation wouldn't that come from all pipes?
Not sure what you mean by condensation. I can see options for some condensation due to
the hot climate and lower night temperatures. But this would be little and blown away within seconds of starting.
Boat or car should not represent a difference here, I think.
The exhaust pipes are well above the water and they are much shorter than in a car.
When the boat is in parking modus the engine is tilted a bit so that it is horizontal.
Pretty much comparable to a parked car without bonnet.
well, step one will be to look at the plugs to possibly find the cylinder not firing,
and then presumably take the cyl head off again - study gasket or whatever
picking up original Toyota gaskets on Monday or Tuesday
done,
started snappy, good, now to change of cylinder heads, will take some time, cumbersome to work in a boat
melvinmelvin
Member
- Messages
- 260
- Location
- Bangkok
noted one small difference between "old" exhaust cams and "new" exhaust cams
on the old cams the M6 holes in the sizzler gears are aligned, so that my M6 bolt went into one cogwheel and came out of the other one
not so on the new cams, the holes are not aligned and the M6 bolt is just pressed against the cogwheel that does not have thread in its hole
on the old cams the M6 holes in the sizzler gears are aligned, so that my M6 bolt went into one cogwheel and came out of the other one
not so on the new cams, the holes are not aligned and the M6 bolt is just pressed against the cogwheel that does not have thread in its hole
melvinmelvin
Member
- Messages
- 260
- Location
- Bangkok
EXHAUST TEMP / TELL TALE OF ENGINE'S WELL BEING ??
In large diesel installations, say 20 000 / 30 000 /40 000 horsepowers and thereabouts.
(these are slow reving beasts - say 80-105 rpm)
On these installations it is not uncommon to watch the exhaust temperatures as a quick check that the cylinders are trotting along happily.
In particular one checks that temperature deviation between the cylinders is small.
Significant deviation in exhaust temperature between two cylinders is a sign that something is not as it should be,
something wrong with air/fuel mix, lax turbo pressure, leak somewhere, time for change of rings and / or honing cylinder etc etc.
smth wrong with fuel pre-heating or whatever
On a "modern" gasoline mill like 1UZ is it worth looking at the exhaust temperatures of each cylinder as hint of well ness or ack thereof?
- Messages
- 4,790
- Location
- Houston, TX
I think you'll find that because of the intake manifold design, the AFR's will vary between cylinders and this will cause variations in the EGT's. So if you want to monitor EGT's, I'd probably do it from a bank to bank perspective, and not individual cylinders. I do have a friend who's building a very radical V12 Ferrari engine and plans on monitoring all 12, however.
I love big engines - I come from a medium speed industrial engine background (6 years with the big yellow ones, and assorted assignments with Cooper, Superior, etc.) Never made the jump to Warsila, however.
I love big engines - I come from a medium speed industrial engine background (6 years with the big yellow ones, and assorted assignments with Cooper, Superior, etc.) Never made the jump to Warsila, however.
melvinmelvin
Member
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- 260
- Location
- Bangkok
Hmm, not sure what AFR is, air flow resistance?, if so - I guess even a minimal turbo would go a long way to sort that out.
Anyway, bank perspective, it seems a tad meager to assess the satisfaction of 8 cylinders on the basis of 2 measuring points.
Should one do that it would probably mean measuring EGT quite a distance from the cylinder head EX outlet.
In my case it would be tricky as I have 2 pipes serving each bank, the 4 outlets never merge.
This was just a shot in the dark from me. However, the past 7 months experience has shown me that it might be usefull to detect early that something is not as it should be.
gloverman
Well-Known Member
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- 3,140
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- Hamilton. New Zealand
Melvinmelvin - AFR is Air fuel ratio. your engine runs rich all the time as the gen 2 ECU uses lambda sensors (AFR sensors) not Oxygen sensors in the exhaust to keep the mixture correct. Without them they run rich - like 12:1 down low and even richer up high. This may be why your engine is worn due to the excessive amount of fuel going through it. Most cars will drive OKish with stuffed AFR sensors as they are keep low in the revs most of the time but generally boats are under more load so excessive mixture leads to excessive wear. EGT's might help. I run a few engines (race engines)(#1 V8 sprintboat) with multi EGT and it's interesting to see the differences. Most are caused by things prior to the combustion chamber. I think a pair of AFR gauges would do more than 8 EGT in your boat though.
melvinmelvin
Member
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- Location
- Bangkok
right, thanks gloverman, enlightening
AFR sensors, is that something you stock? where would they be hooked up?
hooking up AFR sensors is that something I could do myself?
re running rich;
I do not have a good grip of my fuel consumption, the only reasonable grip I have is from running a specific
stretch many many times, from home to a mechanic and back home again, takes about half hour each way
if I am at a speed between say 21 and 23 knots (thats above planing speed with normal load on board),
then the engine runs at about 2200-2300 rpm and the consumption is pretty close to 10 liters/hour.
I reckon this is pretty good actually comparing to other boats, planing and non planing boats.
AFR sensors, is that something you stock? where would they be hooked up?
hooking up AFR sensors is that something I could do myself?
re running rich;
I do not have a good grip of my fuel consumption, the only reasonable grip I have is from running a specific
stretch many many times, from home to a mechanic and back home again, takes about half hour each way
if I am at a speed between say 21 and 23 knots (thats above planing speed with normal load on board),
then the engine runs at about 2200-2300 rpm and the consumption is pretty close to 10 liters/hour.
I reckon this is pretty good actually comparing to other boats, planing and non planing boats.
gloverman
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,140
- Location
- Hamilton. New Zealand
The factory wide band sensors are the ones you might refer to as the oxygen sensors into the exhaust. I often put my aftermarket wideband unit onto the vehicle to diagnose issues. Without the factory or with faulty wideband sensors going to the ECU the engines always run rich. Sometimes they still give OK economy but replacement / repair makes the engines smoother. As your revs are quite low the mixture wont be too bad , still maybe 12:1 but with more revs I've seen 10.5:1 hence your economy isnt too bad. If you dont have a wet exhaust then fitting new sensors is quite easy if the wiring is there. Personally I still think you should ran an aftermarket ECU, lots of money now but cheaper in the long run. (I could do with a holiday in Thailand, hint hint). Ive used all my second hand AFR sensors now but have access to new. Once my shoulder is better Ill have a look.
melvinmelvin
Member
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- 260
- Location
- Bangkok
right, thanks,
yes, if I keep below 2400 the consumption,
but when I pass 3000 (and upwards) then its brunch and free flow of juice.
I have arrangement for wet exhaust, currently not installed, but this is mostly for show and sound, or sound and show if you like,
the water is pumped into the pipes just before a S-bend about 40-50 cm before the pipe ends, shouldn't affect any sensor.
I assume the sensors would be close to the block.
melvinmelvin
Member
- Messages
- 260
- Location
- Bangkok
CHANGED CYLINDER HEAD:
Changed the RH head yesterday, took a while. (and took a couple of days to thoroughly clean the two heads I bought)
Was pitch dark when finished, so just started briefly, without coolant, to ascertain that timing was OK - which it was.
Ran smoothly on 8.
Will tank up coolant and test more today.
- Messages
- 5,632
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Well done.
I hope it goes well for you.
I hope it goes well for you.
melvinmelvin
Member
- Messages
- 260
- Location
- Bangkok
Thanks.
Went OK I think.
Ran it for a couple of hours yesterday, mostly idling. Seemed quite fine.
No gasoline leaks, No coolant leaks, Charging well, Smoothly on all 8, oil cooler fans working as they should, coolant circulating as it should,
radiator fans starting / stopping as they should, instruments working as they should
quite pleased with that,
(couldn't fit the new RH camshaft cover, had to go back to the old cover - the cover has a 90-degree pipe fitting in it -
the OD of the new cover is much larger than the OD of the pipe fitting on the old cover)
Will do some more testing today while figuring out some electrical stuff.
The most difficult part of it all;
changing the oil seal just behind the timing belt pulley on the IN-cam,
took two powerful men more than an hour and 3 broken wrenches to get the nut off the camshaft,
unbelievable how hard that was fitted,
taking off the crankshaft pulley is peanuts in comparison
(off the top of my head torque crankshaft pulley 245 Nm and camshaft pulley 108 Nm)
melvinmelvin
Member
- Messages
- 260
- Location
- Bangkok
SMOKE WITHOUT FIRE?
My 1UZ is normally running with invisible exhaust.
Running yesterday the exhaust from the two RH pipes was not visible, not when idling and not when reving.
When idling I noticed some white (with a very slight touch of grey) from the pipe serving cyl 1 and 3.
When moving into position where I can "step on the pedal" I dont really see the end of the pipes,
when moving to the right side of the engine and using hand on the throttle arrangements to rev my angle
vis a vis the sun is so that I couldn't see any exhaust when idling or when revving.
(so its not much - but at least some when idling)
idling is about 400-450 revs
Maybe nothing to be desperate about maybe just some old sediments on valves, chambers, plugs that need
to be burnt off - dunno - or is this maybe an early tell tale that valve guide problems are underway in the LH cylinder head
(well, have a spare LH cylinder head now)
With the experience over the past 6-7 months now is when I wish I had 1 exhaust temp gauge per cylinder.
melvinmelvin
Member
- Messages
- 260
- Location
- Bangkok
TOYOTA TEMP/PRESSURE SENSORS
When the cylinder heads were purchased the scrapyard put some extras in the box,
among those were two Toyota sensors, one looks like a temp sensor one looks like a pressure sensor.
(I use my own sensor on my 1UZ)
Where are the Toyota water temp sensor/oil temp sensor and oil pressure sensor normally fitted?
(I take my oil temp and oil pressure from sensors in the oil cooler flange fitted where you find the oil filter,
the water temp I take from a sensor fitted in the bleeder on top of the water system at the front end of the engine.
Using the bleeder requires that the coolant system is 100% full, if not the sensor will measure partly water temp
and partly the internal airtemp when air is slurping past the bleeder - with less than full system one always has
the oil temp as a good guide)
Both Toyota sensors are fitted with electrical sockets with 2 pins.
I assume that the sensors discriminate between observations and communicate them by means of electrical resistance.
Which OHM ranges are Toyota sensors made for? Or does that vary from country to country?
melvinmelvin
Member
- Messages
- 260
- Location
- Bangkok
MORE SMOKE, FIRE ANYWHERE?
Yesterday;
weird indeed; replenished coolant a bit, startet like a shot!
not running smoothly, rather heavy white exhaust from pipe servicing cyl 2 and 4, running on 7 cyl.
some white smoke from pipe serving cyl 1 and 3 was there, automagic self repair over igh while I was sleeping
the white smoke from pipe serving cyl 2/4 gets less and less as the engine gets warmer and warmer
when at max temp, ie radiator fans start the smoke from the pipe is clearly visible but not much
dislike automagic self repair? yes, intensely
annoyed? very much so
It doesn't have to be cyl 1 or 3 that is not running, even if the smoke come from there. But so far I am assuming so.
But I'll look at that next time I bother to look. Rather easy to disconnect the injector plugs on these two cylinders and see if that has an effect.
Having an effect or not I will look at the two spark plugs, check that they spark and their condition - mebbe clean a bit.
Experienced smth quite similar 2-3 years back. At that the real culprit was flaky pressure from the fuel pump.
Have a spare fuel pump in my boxes, easy to swap.
Have a feeling that the Dry Martini will come early today.
cheers!
- Messages
- 4,790
- Location
- Houston, TX
Melvin, If the problem you're describing tends to heal itself as the engine heats up, I would suspect a leaking head gasket.
There are some cheap test kits that you can use to "sniff" the fumes in your coolant overflow tank for exhaust gas, indicating a leaking or a blown head gasket. Search Amazon for "Block leak test kit" and I'm sure you'll find them.
There are some cheap test kits that you can use to "sniff" the fumes in your coolant overflow tank for exhaust gas, indicating a leaking or a blown head gasket. Search Amazon for "Block leak test kit" and I'm sure you'll find them.
melvinmelvin
Member
- Messages
- 260
- Location
- Bangkok
thanks, yes I saw that, several kits for 30-40 USD, it doesn't heal itself, but its much less smoke from cyl 2/4 when the engine is up to 80/90 degrees
just found out that the cylinder head gaskets are in stock here, will be delivered to my dealer on Monday, OK to have a spare set.
In the next entry I will summarise my findings so far
- Messages
- 4,790
- Location
- Houston, TX
Did you reuse your old gasket when you changed your RH head? Sometimes you can get away with doing that if it's a MHG, but the OEM composition style really needs changing.
Also, you may have condensation boiling out of your exhaust as the engine warms up and it may look like white smoke? I'm not a boat guy but I would suspect you have more condensation in your boat exhaust than we do in our cars???
Also, you may have condensation boiling out of your exhaust as the engine warms up and it may look like white smoke? I'm not a boat guy but I would suspect you have more condensation in your boat exhaust than we do in our cars???
melvinmelvin
Member
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- 260
- Location
- Bangkok
Cylinders are numbered as follows; RH side: 2-fore, 4, 6, 8-aft; LH side: 1-fore, 3, 5, 7-aft.
1 pipe serving cyl 2 and 4 + 1 pipe serving cyl 6 and 8
1 pipe serving cyl 1 and 5 + 1 pipe serving cyl 3 and 7
Normal for the engine is to have invisible exhaust from all pipes.
Idle speed about 400+ to 420/430.
FINDINGS SO FAR, AFTER CHANGING RH CYLINDER HEAD:
DAY-0:
Changed RH cylinder head.
Started dry/without coolant. Started immediatey, running on all 8.
Concluded that timing was OK.
Fitted exhaust system, fitted cooling system.
DAY-1:
Filled coolant in 3 steps.
Started swiftly - running smoothly on 8 cylinders, low rev and high rev.
I detect a little white smoke (with a dash of light grey) from the cyl 1&5 pipe.
It is clearly visible when idling, not sure if it is when revving.
Coolant circulation is OK, radiator heats up with the engine.
DAY-2:
Did a small bit of replenishing coolant
Started swifty. Running on 7 cyl only.
No visible exhaust from the cyl 1/5 pipe - self repaired over night while i was sleeping?
Lots of white smoke from the cyl 2/4 pipe, less when the engine is fully warm, but still quite a lot.
DAY-3:
No need for replenishing coolant.
Started quick as lightning.
For the first minute it runs on 8 cylinders - revving very nicely. then to 7 cylinders.
Never hear the 8th cylinder again, this day.
Can not detect any smoke from the cyl 1/5 pipe, permanent self healing?
Plenty white smoke from the cyl 2/4 pipe, less when the engine is warm.
And now; engine oil leaking out of the cyl 6/8 pipe. Not happy!
The oil is not splashing out but the leak is significant, easy to see since almost all of it ends up inside the boat rather than through the end of the pipe.
(it comes out of a 3/4 inch pipe fitting in the exhaust pipe that is normally used for pumping water into the exhaust pipe)
(wet exhaust system currently not fitted)
Not sure what to do now, will of course have a look at RH spark plugs.
Have a feeling that today's Dry Martini will be enjoyed earlier than usual.
1 pipe serving cyl 2 and 4 + 1 pipe serving cyl 6 and 8
1 pipe serving cyl 1 and 5 + 1 pipe serving cyl 3 and 7
Normal for the engine is to have invisible exhaust from all pipes.
Idle speed about 400+ to 420/430.
FINDINGS SO FAR, AFTER CHANGING RH CYLINDER HEAD:
DAY-0:
Changed RH cylinder head.
Started dry/without coolant. Started immediatey, running on all 8.
Concluded that timing was OK.
Fitted exhaust system, fitted cooling system.
DAY-1:
Filled coolant in 3 steps.
Started swiftly - running smoothly on 8 cylinders, low rev and high rev.
I detect a little white smoke (with a dash of light grey) from the cyl 1&5 pipe.
It is clearly visible when idling, not sure if it is when revving.
Coolant circulation is OK, radiator heats up with the engine.
DAY-2:
Did a small bit of replenishing coolant
Started swifty. Running on 7 cyl only.
No visible exhaust from the cyl 1/5 pipe - self repaired over night while i was sleeping?
Lots of white smoke from the cyl 2/4 pipe, less when the engine is fully warm, but still quite a lot.
DAY-3:
No need for replenishing coolant.
Started quick as lightning.
For the first minute it runs on 8 cylinders - revving very nicely. then to 7 cylinders.
Never hear the 8th cylinder again, this day.
Can not detect any smoke from the cyl 1/5 pipe, permanent self healing?
Plenty white smoke from the cyl 2/4 pipe, less when the engine is warm.
And now; engine oil leaking out of the cyl 6/8 pipe. Not happy!
The oil is not splashing out but the leak is significant, easy to see since almost all of it ends up inside the boat rather than through the end of the pipe.
(it comes out of a 3/4 inch pipe fitting in the exhaust pipe that is normally used for pumping water into the exhaust pipe)
(wet exhaust system currently not fitted)
Not sure what to do now, will of course have a look at RH spark plugs.
Have a feeling that today's Dry Martini will be enjoyed earlier than usual.
Last edited:
melvinmelvin
Member
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- 260
- Location
- Bangkok
No, I did not reuse the gasket. The old gasket was Toyota original - only been used a few hours - since I changed Valve oil seals.
The gasket used was a gasket (new) made by a Bangkok gasket maker using the original Toyota gasket as template.
Re condensation wouldn't that come from all pipes?
Not sure what you mean by condensation. I can see options for some condensation due to
the hot climate and lower night temperatures. But this would be little and blown away within seconds of starting.
Boat or car should not represent a difference here, I think.
The exhaust pipes are well above the water and they are much shorter than in a car.
When the boat is in parking modus the engine is tilted a bit so that it is horizontal.
Pretty much comparable to a parked car without bonnet.
well, step one will be to look at the plugs to possibly find the cylinder not firing,
and then presumably take the cyl head off again - study gasket or whatever
picking up original Toyota gaskets on Monday or Tuesday
Last edited:
