Wet Sleeves

The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.

Lextreme II

Just call me "Lex"
Messages
12,033
Location
City of Halos
I was talking to JBrady via the phone for about 30 minutes today and we talked about Darton Wet Sleeves (MID). The wet sleeve is about 140 USD each and the labor about 1000 for the installation. I wonder anyone been thinking about increase the bore size by changing the sleeves.
http://www.darton-international.com/pr_vq35.htm
http://www.darton-international.com/main_fr.htm

vq35%20block_pr.jpg

LS-1,-ecotec-blocks.jpg


What do u guys think re sleeving with 2uzfe crank?

If possible, this is what i am thinking of

3.990" bore (LS1 sleeve) with 3.31" stroke (2uzfe crank)
The standard bore sizes are:
1uz = 3.44"
2uz = 3.70"
3uz = 3.58"

The LS1 sleeves are very close to the upgrade size. Anything above 4" would be too big and anything less than 3.70" would not worth the investment.

Cubic Inch Calculator and it will yield 5425.69 cc or 5.4 liters.

With the new sleeves, we also use the LS1 forged pistons and forged LS1 rods also..... Very strong parts and also at great prices.
 
This sounds ...really good, being the low mech person that I am, please clarify, this is the 1uz block were talking here ... right!
 
So if you did this with the stock crank from 1uz how many liters then. what about pistons? I'm guessing they wouldn't be stock. would we use thoose ones you posted the other day?
 
Please read the initial post.

Here the expenses:

Sleeves: $1,200 (LS1)
Labor: $1,000
Forged H-Beam Rods: $300 (LS1)
Forged Pistons $400 (LS1)
 
So, would the piston need a different top shape than a standard LS1 to match the 1UZ combustion chamber? If so, would the cost savings for the piston be eliminated?

I have to admit, this is quite intriging, however I suspect there is no "drop-in" sleeve from an LS1 that is going to fit without a lot of work. Would the block need to be converted to a open deck design to accept these sleeves? I suppose the $1000 machine work could cover that?
 
This looks like it could be very promising but I'm interested to know a bit more.
What is the process for removing and installing the new sleeves? Do they heat up the block to remove them or it it a matter of machining them out? Is there someone in Australia that can do this or would we have to send the block over? Its just that I've heard sleeving alloy bocks with steel sleeves is tricky, at least with ls1 block. What is the wall thickness of the sleeves be with a 3.99" bore?
 
Hate to be a wet blanket but a 100mm bore in a 1UZ block is unrealistic...

If you refer to http://www.lextreme.com/3uzblock.html the deck between the bores is 0.719" or 18.25mm wide. This is with a 87mm bore. With a 100mm bore we are left with approx 5.25mm.

Is this enough to seal the combustion pressures?
How thick are the liners? Much over 2.5mm each and they will touch.
What about cooling between the liners? The 400" chev small block has siamesed liners and resulting cooling issues.
Will the deck be strong enough to support the top of the liners with no alloy between? Honda's have problems with their open deck design and install block guards to survive.
What type of custom head gasket will survive and at what cost?
 
Shame on you tobes for pissing on our camp fire 5.5 liters.....we can all dream. On a more realistic note how much tooling, cutting, grinding, fabricating, hammering & nailing, super glueing, and duct taping of an engine can you do and still call it a 1uz. And how much of that could you circumvent by just finding a way to fit an already built up 5 liter engine. I know.. I know.. you climb the mountain because it is there.
 
I know how you feel bud...

I have been looking at this for a while now and even pulled out of the forged piston group buy as I felt that I might as well do the liners as well and look for a capicity increase at the same time. Was aiming for 5.0l but so far I haven't found a way past 4.5-4.7l.

Have spoken to the guy who built this engine - http://lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2379

He used a Jaguar liner with a 92mm(3.622") bore to get 4.5l. Part of the reason they didn't go larger was finding a head gasket that would be reliable.
He doubted that we could go much larger and keep it alive.
He has since pulled the engine down for inspection and feels that the liner may eventually cause problems in the deck area. It is supported by a flange near the top and the pressure exerted on the liner when the head is clamped down onto it may stress the deck surface excessively. The liner needs to be supported at the bottom where the stress is taken up deep in the block.
When I asked about 5.0l he had some serious doubts if it was possible or affordable...

This engine has cost close to $25,000 in parts, plus labour, and we rougly costed a similar short block for me at around $10,000. Starts to make the std size forged piston/4.0l 1UZ with twin GT30's look very cost effective...

There is a rumour that a Rotorua stockcar driver has just spent close to $100,000 on a 1UZ for his car!!!!!!

Keep looking and somebody, please, prove me wrong...........
 

Attachments

  • DSCN0294.JPG
    DSCN0294.JPG
    73.8 KB · Views: 18
  • DSCN0298.JPG
    DSCN0298.JPG
    61.4 KB · Views: 15
  • DSCN0301.JPG
    DSCN0301.JPG
    68.7 KB · Views: 12
  • DSCN0291.JPG
    DSCN0291.JPG
    68.4 KB · Views: 12
  • DSCN0287.JPG
    DSCN0287.JPG
    64.7 KB · Views: 12
From what i have been reading and please correct me if i am wrong. MID work as the replacement of water jackets. Therefore, the whole sleeve and the support aluminum will be removed. The top plate acts as the water jacket.
 
What is the process for removing and installing the new sleeves? Do they heat up the block to remove them or it it a matter of machining them out?
I looked at a Darton dealer's website ( http://www.westonmachine.com/ ), it looks like they mill the whole OEM cylinders out. That shop is about 10-15 minutes away from me,I never knew they did Darton sleeves.

Will the deck be strong enough to support the top of the liners with no alloy between? Honda's have problems with their open deck design and install block guards to survive.
Sleeved Honda engines do not have alloy between the liners and top areas are rigid because current sleeve designs convert the blocks to a closed-deck design. The block guards with OEM sleeves aren't much help,they just keep the sleeves from coming apart into several pieces,sleeves will just crack and stay put.
 
Well, that is one giant step towards proving me wrong... I had been looking for an OEM sleeve to pirate and missed the MID technology completely.

It solves all my questions re block and deck strength, cooling, etc bar one...

The bore spacing on an LS1 is 4.4" centre to centre. I calculated the 1UZ @ 4.16" (if someone can check this for me, my engines heads are in the way). In the LS1 with 3.99" bores there is 0.41"(10.4mm) between the bores. The same bore size in a 1UZ leaves 0.17"(4.3mm) between the bores.

However a 3.818" (97mm) bore combined with a 3.356" (85.25mm (2UZ offset ground to suit the small journal Chev rod)) gives us 5037cc!!!!!!!!!
Allows 0.34" (8.7mm) between the bores which may be just enough....
 
TOBES said:
Well, that is one giant step towards proving me wrong... I had been looking for an OEM sleeve to pirate and missed the MID technology completely.

It solves all my questions re block and deck strength, cooling, etc bar one...

The bore spacing on an LS1 is 4.4" centre to centre. I calculated the 1UZ @ 4.16" (if someone can check this for me, my engines heads are in the way). In the LS1 with 3.99" bores there is 0.41"(10.4mm) between the bores. The same bore size in a 1UZ leaves 0.17"(4.3mm) between the bores.

However a 3.818" (97mm) bore combined with a 3.356" (85.25mm (2UZ offset ground to suit the small journal Chev rod)) gives us 5037cc!!!!!!!!!
Allows 0.34" (8.7mm) between the bores which may be just enough....

Actually, the current finished bore size on a Darton sleeved LS1 can be 4.16". Giving the same wall thickness on a 1UZFE allows for a 99.5mm bore or over 5.2 liters on a 2UZ crank.
 
Eric from B and E Custom ( a member of this site too) is a dealer for Darton MID Sleeves.

These are sleeves manufactured by Darton International. They are all brand new, ready for installation.

The sleeves allow you to run larger bores in your block, and they also make the block a lot stronger. These are perfect for those that are going to run forced induction like a Turbocharger, Supercharger or Nitrous. These are also great for use when you are trying to get more displacement out of your stock block.

You have 2 choices of sleeve size. 4" bore, or 4.125" bore with a max boring size of 4.165". Either sleeve size can be bored to the 4.165" max. The only difference is the supplied machined diameter.

A 4.165" bore with the stock crank will yeild 395 Cubic inches.

Installation should only be performed by a professional shop with a CNC Mill/Lathe. We can perform the machining service for you for $1175 for used blocks and $1300 for brand new blocks, plus shipping.

These units fit the LS1/LS6 block only.

Blocks are available from us for $800. They are used blocks that are in perfect condition for sleeving. All blocks come with main caps.

Block is NOT included in this sale.


I also talked to my engine builder about stroking the stock 2uz crank from 3.31" to 3.50". He stated that 3.50" is the max the 2uz crank can increase before running into problems.

With LS1 MID Sleeves (3.990") and 3.50" stroke will yield 5737.13 cc or 5.7 Liters.

The re-grinding the stock crank is about $1,000 plus
Sleeves: $1,200 (LS1)
Labor: $1,000
Forged H-Beam Rods: $300 (LS1)
Forged Pistons $400 (LS1)

Total would be about: $4,000 (shortblock) for the World Only 5.7 Liters 1UZFE
 


Top