The what bit goes where bit???

[skid]

Hi Guys,

Well I've gone and done it! An LS400 1UZ of some extraction lies on a pallet on my garage floor. Jesus... how many bits of plastic and wire??? ha ha.... what have I started!

It is a front sump model and the oil filter sticks outat virtually 90 degrees from the right hand side (looking from the front) on a secondary mounting unit which is inturn mounted to the block. Any clues to specific origin?

This really is a jump on by 100 years over a SBC I'm used to playing with very amatuerishly.

The lump is going to go in a 944, and before I get into the fabrication side and posting like mad on that forum, I really need some basic lessons and homework on the electronic side.

Basically I'm pretty sure the stock ECU is missing and will be wondering about stock replacement from a breaker or aftermarket. I know stock has certain power/mods limits. The car will be manual and in the UK I might be able to get away with some of the emission pipework, though not all of it. Will the stock ecu be a waste of time? What can I bin?

So how hard are stock ECU's to find in your country and is not running auto a problem? Any ideas how many types of ECU there are or could I bolt on and go.

Also what do the AFM, knock and crank sensors look like, where are they and are there any other sensors I need to make it all run? I have the full throttle body cast unit though not sure if the AFM is bolted on to there or internal.

Is there an idiots guide to all the boxes, sensors and wires around the engine, what they do and whether I can bin them?

Ultimately I want 400fwhp so toying with Supercharger or maybe cam and throttle body route. Money will play a big part in the decision.

Look forward to advice and ideas.

Cheers

(skid) Mark

 

[Zuffen]

Mark,

A photograph of your engine would be helpful.

To answer your questions as best I can here goes:

1. The engine sounds like an LS400/Celsior engine. It should have forward sloping cast alloy engine mounts abour 175/200mm long.

2.The loom should have three dark grey plugs on the end of it for the ECU. The LS400 uses a single ECU for the engine and trans. A stock replacement will be available from a member on the Site. This is the commonest ECU so you're lucky.

3. Running manual can have some problems with the ECU but they have been researched faily well by members. A good search will answer most if not all of your questions.

4. The AFM sensor is located in the AFM which is attached downstream from the throttle body. It is an alloy casting around 200mm long and 120mm in diameter and has a black module (the sensor) attached with a couple of PK screws. There's a plug hanging off your loom for it.

5. The knock sensors are located under the manifold. If you look hard you will see them around the middle cylinders on each side. They are light grey and around 40mm in diameter. You can be very sure they are there.

6. The crank sensor is located at 5 o'clock on the front crank puley. It is a small 20mmx30mm black plastic box with a plug on it's rear.

7. I don't know of any single source for what each sensor is. You need to look at all posts on the Site referring to sensors and you will surprised what you'll learn.

8. You can get 400FWHP on the stock ECU with a decent exhaust, Supercharger and perhaps injector upgrade.

 

[400ZED]

If you are missing bits like stock ecu, O2 sensors( on the header they should be there), AFM, igniters they are normally on the inner guard, and planning on going manuall. then i would recomend aftermarket managment. if you mod the engine you will get the most out of it. I run wolf it works well and is $1300 AUS but might not be common in the UK Motec is worth it for a RACE car if you want all the Data logging and every thing it really is in it's on league. the Autronic is also good and Richardson motor sport will sell you oe with a map ready to go ( would still benifit from tunning when installed)

but for the ease of it aftermarket is good you get to throw anything you don't know what is away and then rewire. there is a souple of days in the wirring but only a few.

post photos of y unidentified parts and i am sure you will get your answer back.

 

[skid]

HI Zuffen, 400ZED

You guys really are fonts of knowledge!

Zuffen, unfortunately the engine mounts were not included so can't check that. You have already given me some advice on my engine, and a pics are here..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7931373472&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOAB:UK:6

400ZED, I think I have the O2 sensor. Is there only 1 and on the drivers side (UK/AUS) header and connected by a bronze pipe to some where behind the TB? Also whats the igniters???



Unfortunately I am at the troubled point of deciding, do I go all stock Lexus and tackle the manual box problem, or go all aftermarket with a charger and Wolf or other ECU???

I know the stock ECU can handle a modest psi charger but don't want to be throwing big bucks on a compromise.

I don't want to touch the engine internals itself unless Cams do eventually become available, and/or I need to decompress the engine. Even then I would really only want to do the gasket route. (Always wondered if this effected the efficiency of the 'squish' area though?)

I'm sorry about some of the daft questions I'm just trying to do my homework, make a firm decision then stick with it. It will be a mistake to go one route then swap later on. Hmmmmmmm..... Decisions decisions decisions.

Cheers

Mark

 

[Zuffen]

Skid,

I'd say it is definitely an LS400 engine. Looks like you need to compile a shopping list.

Looking at the photos (wish they'd stop changing) you are missing:
1. Power steer pump.
2. Alternator
3. Igniters
4. AFM
5. ECU

All of these items, plus the mounts you know about are available from members who has done swaps/mods and aren't using them.

Whilst Porsche 911's are my strong suit I don't know if the 944 ran P/S. If it did you will need the correct pump as it bolts straight on. It goes on the top left (looking at it) of the engine, right beside the dizzy cover. When you get the pump take the time to rebuild it. There is a tutorial on the ALSC Website and the kit is cheap chips.

Alternator is the same story but you could easilly adapt any alternator to fit on a custom bracket. The alternator lives immediately below the P/S pump.

Igniters are usually mounted on the wheel arch and look like they were left behind. The are essential to get the ignition running. Be aware there are different igniters on different years and not all interchange.

AFM depending n what management system you run you may ditch it.

ECU I presume the plugs are there for the ECU. If not go aftermarket, but check it is legal in the UK.

Have you thought about talking with the seller to see if they have any parts left over. All the missing parts would only be good for a 1UZ so they may be left in a corner somewhere.

If they don't have them post a WTB you will be surprised what you can get.

The O2 sensors are located in each exhaust manifold. They screw in and have about a 24mm nut on them. The fitting you were describing is the EGR plumbing, which fortunately us Aussies don't have to put up with.

Would you be looking for more than 6lb boost in the future.

I guess you need to decide how much grunt you want out of the engine and head down that route. Remember the engine will give you close to 300hp with exhaust and intake mods so it will have the same horsepower output as an early 930 so it won't be too shabby.

 

[skid]

Thanks Zuffen,

I feel a bit more confident now.

I was hoping to use the Porsche power steeting pump (I have the parts) on a fabricated bracket. This is a bit old school miss and match and just presumed I could do it with the 1UZ. Is this a no no???

Same as with the alternator which you appear to agree with.

The ignitors? A whole new concept on me. Yes they are missing. Would I need them if I went aftermarket ECU?

I will get the block number which may help me determine year and therefore the parts numbers and details required. I have a Lexus dealer within 3 miles, however most dealers here in the UK are pushed to the limit and to be honest I don't expect much help from them unless I'm going to book it through the 'shop properly, and that defeats the object doesn't it?

The loom all apperas in place with all the plugs on the end, so that's a start. I will investigate LS400 ECU with auto bypass plus cost of bits, and after market route. Then it will be decision time.

There are no other parts from the seller as he imported it from a breaker (Asian???) and abandoned his project.

If I do break from stock set up and go super-charged I would want to get as much power as possible before major decompression work required, ie pistons. I've looked at the group buy details on pistons, but add in the manifolds, charger and associated pipework I'm not sure it would be affordable. I read a lot on a link from here to Lextremes own site area and read some interesting info on different chargers regarding psi against bhp and intercooler effect. I need to understand more how say a centrifugal is more effective than an Eaton at the same psi. If I get the charger selection right I might be able to avoid expensive decompression and other expense.

With regard to legality here in the UK we are quite lucky I guess. As long as emissions are ok (and I may have to fit cats) and it passes an annual safety and emissions test (MOT) then there is no other loop holes to worry about.
I would probably only fit cats for the test then pull them off.

Right, better do some work now. Lextreme.com is proving seriously unhealthy to my productivity! ha ha ha

Cheers

Mark
p.s. what's a WTB?

 

[Tonyd]

Hi Mark,

A fellow Brit here. It looks like I'm going to be putting a lexus V8 into a Cobra replica or two in the very near future so its likely that I will be bothering you with lots of silly questions when I get the engines over here. You've already made my mind up re not buying without being really sure about what comes with the package, its got to be "key ready" and a complete package.

Where are you based, if its close I wouldnt mind coming over and having a look at your engine in its "naked" state.

Cheers,

Tony

 

[skid]

Hi Tony.

You on CobraClub.com or Pistonheads.co.uk? The name looks familiar. ha ha

I am Skid on those 2 sites also.

You are more than welcome to come over. You can see my naked 1UZ and also my Dave Brookes built Dax Cobra so you can measure away!!! As a matter of fact I have run a tape across the SBC in the Cobra and it is significantly narrower. You would need to modify the footwells at the top close to the bulkhead/firewall(GRP and not much steel work) to bring the engine back far enough to give the same weight distribution as the Chevy as otherwise it would be too far forward.

I'm in Reading so PM me and I'll forward a number.

As for having a 'key ready' package, trust me it ain't gonna happen. Zuffen and others have informed me that the auto based 1UZ has an ecu controlling engine and transmission on the LS400 which is going to be the biggest available unit in the UK. You maybe able to import 'half cuts' from (I think) a Celsior which seperates the 'box and engine ECU's though freighting in all that weight may be cost prohibitive.

I would be interested in your little project though so drop me a line.

Cheers

Mark

 

[Zuffen]

Ok our Pommie mates lets answer some questions.

You will probably find it cheaper (but more work) to fab brackets and run the Porsche P/S and alternator. You have them so they're free. A bit of steel a few hours of frustration and you have it. Plus you did it your way!

Igniters. If you go aftermarket you should be able to get away without them.

If you look at the cost of buying igniters, AFM and ECU you are half way to an Autronic or Wolf. If I were you I'd be seriously looking at aftermarket engine management.

I think you now know why the seller abandoned the project. His loss your gain.

As for which supercharger to use it depends what you want from the motor.

Eatns give increased power from the turn of the key but do heat the intake air so anything over 7lb will be starting to think about for some sort of cooling.

Centrifugal blowers give power more like a turbo. If you look at one it is really a belt driven turbo. This will give you good top end at the expense of the lack of torque down low but it doesn't heat the charge like an Eaton. Depends where you want your power as to what unit you run.

The ultimate looks to be a whipple which has the power (and more) of the Eaton with the cooler charge of the Centrifugal unit.

The Celsior runs the single ECU. The Crown is the only engine with split ECU/ECT.

Cobra (on this Site) has a 1UZ powered Cobra and yes he had it made with a bigger engine bay to fit the engine.

 

[Tonyd]

Hi Tony.

You on CobraClub.com or Pistonheads.co.uk? The name looks familiar. ha ha

I am Skid on those 2 sites also.

You are more than welcome to come over. You can see my naked 1UZ and also my Dave Brookes built Dax Cobra so you can measure away!!! As a matter of fact I have run a tape across the SBC in the Cobra and it is significantly narrower. You would need to modify the footwells at the top close to the bulkhead/firewall(GRP and not much steel work) to bring the engine back far enough to give the same weight distribution as the Chevy as otherwise it would be too far forward.

I'm in Reading so PM me and I'll forward a number.

As for having a 'key ready' package, trust me it ain't gonna happen. Zuffen and others have informed me that the auto based 1UZ has an ecu controlling engine and transmission on the LS400 which is going to be the biggest available unit in the UK. You maybe able to import 'half cuts' from (I think) a Celsior which seperates the 'box and engine ECU's though freighting in all that weight may be cost prohibitive.

I would be interested in your little project though so drop me a line.

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark,

Tis I from the Cobra club and Pistonheads to be sure.

I've already stuck a BMW V8 into an AK so as long as the Lexus isnt any wider I should be OK. Whats the width of the Lexus V8? I've got it down as 750mm at its widest point, if so, theres no problem. The current weight distribution of my AK with the Beemer and Tiptronic box is 46%F and 54% rear so if I can get the same with the Lexus I'll be happy.

The SBC compared to a modern engine is tiny, theres so much room around them in a Cobra, with a modern V8 its all a fair bit tighter.

My aim is to actually use the Lexus auto box so as long as the engine and gearbox havent been split and the engine loom and gearbox loom is complete to the ECU it should all work correctly. Once I get the thing running its then chasing fault codes down to sort out default settings. The biggest potential problem will be if theres links between the ABS and the ECU. Luckily thanks to the kind people on this site I have got the required wiring diagrams so chasing signal wires through the loom wont be too difficult. I had to get the BMW lump running without a wiring diagram, a matching loom or half the sensors. All I had was a list of ECU pin numbers and the function, and BMW were totally unwilling to help. Even begging letters to BMW head office got me nowhere.

I have three choices of donor engines at the moment, BMW as before ( but been there and done that) Jaguar V8 Supercharged ( almost impossible to get supply) and Lexus. Its looking very much like Lexus is my top choice as regards ease of conversion, novelty value and availability. I will have to make the final decision soon as the chassis(s) are being built early in the New Year.

I'll drop you a PM with contact numbers.

Cheers,
Tony

 

[skid]

Hi Tony,

I've PM'd you.

450mm????? Christ no, more like 700mm!

As Zuffen says it has been done but the saw came out!



Rod,

Move the starter? Oh no! I thought I'd found an easy move with the M112! Hmmmm if a manifold has to be fabricated then maybe this could be bridged.
Whipple (twin screw I assume) is the way to go and similar in location but too many bucks me thinks.

Once again many thanks. Your PM made me chuckle and you were doing so well until the last little bit. Never mind.

Mark (still sore from the rugby!)

 

[Zuffen]

Mark,

Last time I looked Australia WAS the centre of the universe!

Sorry about the Rugby and the League. Fancy getting your backside kicked by Australia twice in one weekend. Oh the glory of it.

Logan I wouldn't say a word about the NZ/Australia Cricket game right now. Cmon Aussies! Clean sweep for Australia.

 

[LEXUSV8NZ]

Yeah yeah, no need to go there...

Logan

 

[skid]

Mark,

Last time I looked Australia WAS the centre of the universe!

Sorry about the Rugby and the League. Fancy getting your backside kicked by Australia twice in one weekend. Oh the glory of it.

Logan I wouldn't say a word about the NZ/Australia Cricket game right now. Cmon Aussies! Clean sweep for Australia.

I just love the banter between the 3 Nations of Aus, NZ and Brit as weighting of loyalties change depending on who's playing who and at what sport. You should have seen my Kiwi mate shouting for England in a certain World Cup this time last year! Ah the joys! ha ha.

Mind you we all make a good job of getting pissed together!

Mark

p.s. If Aus is the centre of the Universe how come most young offspring get propelled to the outer edges of the known Universe.... ie bar work in down town London?

 

[Cobra]

Hi Skid,

When I was younger I did the London bar work scene. I had a job in a pub right on Piccadilly Circus. The heart of Soho.

The most important thing I learnt during my year long stay was just how great a place Australia is.

Brett

 

[Zuffen]

Brett,

Never a a more true statement made.

I think I've done 26 trips to London and everytime I get out of the cab at Heathrow I thank god I'm leaving.

Great place to visit but live there? Never. If only the pommies realised they were doing all the convicts a favour when they sent them out.

Travel the world and you will find no better place than the city by the harbour. Unless you're at Panania RSL this Sunday for the Lextreme meet!

 

[LEXUSV8NZ]

My family left britain and Australia to live here in NZ...
Thank god for that;-)

Logan

 

[skid]

My family left britain and Australia to live here in NZ...
Thank god for that

Logan

My family left America and Australia and NZ to live in Britain... Thank god for that!



ha ha ha ha

.. and so the cycle continues.


Down town Soho? Yeah nice (not). Interesting thing is there probably weren't many actual Brits living there! ha ha

If any of you do fly into Heathrow occasionally do give me a shout as a beer wouldn't go amiss. I'm only 40 miles away, but it's the most important 40 miles heading west away from London and into the Royal County of green and sunny Berkshire. (I'm trying my best for the local tourist industry you notice)

Cheers all

Mark

 

[Zuffen]

Mark,

You don't wear green wellies by any chance?

Old Libby wouldn't live next door by chance?

 

[skid]

Mark,

You don't wear green wellies by any chance?

Old Libby wouldn't live next door by chance?

Aunty Liz? Yeah, but we don't have much to do with the more excentric poorer side of the family. Bit of an embaressment really, tend to just say hello at social events and then try and avoid them.
Uncle Phil's alright though, good for winding up at pointing at some poor unsuspecting johnny foreigner and then seeing him abuse and insult them and their homeland. Quite funny coming from a Greek really.

Yours

Lord Skid from the Independant Monarchy of Reading

tootle pip