Supra Vs. LS400 (95) Brake Upgrade

The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.
LS400 brakes:
1) Lighter weight
2) Almost as big as the MkIV brakes
3) Cheaper

MkIV brakes:
1) More expensive
2) Much heavier (anecdotally speaking)
3) Bigger brake pad selection (though MkIV pads are supposedly modifiable to fit the LS400)

The rotor on the MkIV Supra is a little thicker and a little larger in diameter.
 
'96 LS400, winter project - supercharger!

LOL.... love your signature..... Thanks.... hmmmmmmm I wonder what is the price difference.

Here is what I got from R1Concept Rotors company. Great group to deal with. Ask for Sam or Dan. They are my buddies.

Rotors.jpg

1995 LS400 is about 1/3" of an inch smaller then the Supra TT. I think its possible to use TT rotors with 95 calipers.
 
TT Rotors will not work with the LS400 calipers.

The LS400, being aluminum, are light. The pad is slightly smaller than the TT pad, but the stopping power is very similar. Finding sweet pads is not always easy, but I got some EBC Greenstuff Pads for $74 from TM Engineering for my LS400 brakes.

The TT calipers are heavier, hold larger pads, and fit over larger rotors. The biggest advantage to the TT Calipers is pad selection. Everyone and their brother makes pads for them: from organic to metallic to ceramic.

Ultimately, the complete LS400 upgrade can be done for under $350 whereas the Supra calipers alone normally bring the same price tag. I would favor the LS400 brakes for the value. There are enough pad choices out there to where you can find something satisfactory. In my opinion, the Supra brakes, being only marginally stronger, do not present nearly as good of a value as the LS400 brakes.
 
David,
You'll also need to put the SC400 info on it to cover all specs. I'll try my best to write up a tutorial for swapping the LS400 on the SC400 when I have a chance. But you gotta help me out for the pictures.
 
Do you really gain braking distance when upgrading to the 4 piston front calipers?... I have read it really takes away from the rear braking power when doing these swaps.....

I know when I did my swap with the Supra TT brakes I noticed stronger braking power but not so sure my rear brakes were even working...
 
When switching your brake set up to "Big Brakes", it is also important to change out the rears...Brake bias is important, and when you only change the fronts, the braking system becomes unbalanced, often causing your braking distances to degrade, and increasing stopping distance, instead of decreasing it. Change out all 4 with the balanced set, and you should notice the improvement. I also would think the savings in unsprung weight would be a benefit of the LS400 calipers...They probably will work well with the stock SC400 master cylinder too, so, definitely seems like the most cost effective way to go.

Ryan
 
David,
You'll also need to put the SC400 info on it to cover all specs. I'll try my best to write up a tutorial for swapping the LS400 on the SC400 when I have a chance. But you gotta help me out for the pictures.


Hey steve if you need help with tutorial I can help you write it too. Lets do your setup together next time. I'll bring the camera. LS400 brake upgrade is best bang for the buck. I always recommend it to members.
 
A couple notes:

- After doing my LS400 brake swap, my braking was much stronger. I ran before and after tests with my 7th grade neighbor in the passenger seat as an unbiased observer. He was laughing all the way home after testing out the LS400 brakes. He felt like he was in a Hollywood car chase scene since we were stopping so much more swiftly than on the stock system.

- When swapping the rears to Supra Turbo calipers and rotors, the car was much less willing to break traction when flooring the brake pedal. On the LS400 fronts only, the rear end would kind of get a mind of its own when braking very hard. As it stands now, I can come to a complete stop from nearly any speed and do so in a straight line with only chirping the tires.

- Correct me if I am wrong, but the 95-00 LS400 used one piston calipers in the rear, on rotors small enough to fit behind 16" wheels. I am sure the brake bias was altered within the hydraulic system between 94 and 95, but that doesn't prevent anyone from buying a brake proportioning valve and fine tune it to find the sweet spot where traction will not be sacrificed even under hard braking.

- Calipers, being locked in place in the wheel well, only affect sprung weight. The 10-12lb difference in total caliper weight between the TT and LS400 brakes would have the similar effect to having or not having your briefcase sitting in the passenger seat. Nevertheless, any weight savings is a good thing.

In summary, the LS400 front brakes by themselves are definitely stronger than stock, and while brake bias is affected, it can be corrected to maximize braking performance with a rear brake kit or a brake proportioning valve.

Summit Racing makes a bias proportioning valve for all of $35 so that you can tune your bias. Search Summit Racing for "SUM-G3905". Here is an article about installing one: http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/71398_install_brake_proportioning_valve/index.html
 
I'd be careful putting a proportioning valve on a vehicle equipped with ABS. One or the other are liable to get confused?

Not to say it can't/shouldn't be done, and no, I've not done any research on it, but I would think some research should be done before you actually do it.....
 
The funny thing is I changed my stock rotors to drilled and slotted rotors and installed OEM pads...I swear the braking improved on my 2 piston calipers and I found the change more impressive then any Big brake Supra swap with the Supra rotors... I no longer even consider the 4 piston brake swap...

Like SC400tt says, if you don't change out the rears and the master you probably are loosing braking distance... The 4 piston calipers do look nice when painted and installed though...
 
I have done the 95 LS400 4 piston swap onto my 90 Celsior , in the most accurate testing I could do [ full on push on the peddle as hard as you can from exactly 100 KPH ] the car stopped 8.0 m earlier than with standard brakes , that's 26.2 feet !!
Take in mind I have sticky 235/40/18's on the front and 275/40/18's on the back , so with standard brakes the car was way underbraked .
Just remember that when braking really hard the weight transfer to the front means that only about 20% of the braking happens at the rear , so changing the rear brakes will only give you a proportion of 20% improvement .
I have found that there is no need to upgrade the rear brakes after fitting the 4 pots to the front .
Even with the standard master cylinder the peddle pressure is only slightly less than standard , during " normal " driving , driving around normally there's not a lot of difference , but when you want a little more then you start to appreciate the bigger swept area and the 4 pots and when you really need to stop in a hurry cos some A/hole has pulled out in front of you THEN you really appreciate the extra brakes , apart from the fact that my brakes were 17 years old and due for a rebuild , I replaced them for the emergency stop situation , lets face it if you hit another car and would have kept going another 26 feet that's a big hit !!
It won't kill you but I don't think you would be driving away afterward !!
My wife [ who drives the car 90% of the time as it is the family beast ] managed to pull up when some one backed out of a driveway , this was about 5 weeks ago , she actually stopped about 3 feet short of hitting the guy [ dumbass that he was when he saw her he hit the brakes and stopped right in her path instead of keeping coming out and creating a clear pathway ] anyhow she gave me a huuuuuuggggge hug when she got to work , she already liked the bigger brakes , but after that she really really liked them !!
So anybody that sez they don't make much difference or that you need to do the rears as well...just ask them if they have actually done the swap and driven the car in the real world and if they haven't take what they say with a grain of salt !!
I went for the LS400 brakes over the Supra brakes due to cost , it was either LS400 4 pots or nothing , Supra calipers are $800.00 a pair over here secondhand and generally pads on top of that again , I got rebuilt LS calipers with new shims and pads for Aus $600.00 .
Lets face it the LS is a bus and if the Supra brakes are any better it would be hard to appreciate the difference if any .
I'm very very happy with my setup and don't see the need to do any more brake wise .
 
I've driven James's SC400 with the '95 LS400 front brake. He still has stock rear SC brake. All I can tell is the braking is way better than my stock SC400. I had new Brembo rotors and Akimoto organic pads all around with new fluid bleeding, but it can't compare to his. There's no funny jerking nor unusual stopping with his car like the theory of the necessary bigger rear brake upgrade like most of us have read on the tech article of the brake companies. Who knows they want to sell the front & rear...:scratchchin: I think they actually have a point, but that might apply only on really bigger brake that has 6 pistons and a lot larger friction areas than the stock brake. That's when the rear upgrade is needed. I honestly think the 95 and newer brake upgrade is the best bang for the buck. That's why I just bought a whole set of new calipers, pads for my SC.

David,
My source from the spacer maker says the SC and LS have the same hub bore of 60.1 mm. This is very close to your source, so I guess it's no difference.
 
My take on braking is that bigger is always better. Of course, in this case the rear brake upgrade is not really needed but if you can upgrade then why not. I'm planning to upgrade my rear brake to Supra TT one to have even better braking. But as of now I'm really happy with my setup. The 4 piston LS brakes is way much better than my stock ones.
John, to answer your question about changing the rotors to cross drilled and slotted. I used to have cross drilled and slotted rotors for my stock calipers and it help a bit. Then when I change to the LS brake setup I also got slotted rotors too. So to keep things short I always run after market rotors and in comparison the 4 piston LS caliper still out perform the stock 2 piston. That's my opinion....

BTW Steve how is those brakes coming?? You put them on yet?? Let me know if you need the tools I told you about..
 
If you guys need any rotors, please contact Sam or Dan from www.r1concept.com and tell them Lextreme refer you. They will hook you up. Steve and I got a set of Drilled and Slotted and Zince coated 1995 LS400 rotors.
 
Steve and James you got it down...Sounds like the brake swaps are very benefical..

4 piston calipers combined with D/S rotors and quality brake pads will give you incredible braking power...NICE....
 


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