Some Basic GZ-FE Swap/Install Questions

[wantahertzdonut]

So in all the reading I've done in this section I've come across what seems to be a common theme in all of the GZ-FE swaps. Everyone seems to talk a lot about running aftermarket ECU's, and I'm wondering why that is?

Is there a problem with the factory unit? Is it that unflexible that it won't work in any other car but a Century?

What are you guys doing to build more power out of this beast? I would assume head porting would be in order along with cams/intake/exhaust, but what would you do to source something like a cam for a rare engine such as this?

Finally, what would be the project cost to swap one of these into an SC 300/400 or 93+ Supra?

 

[wantahertzdonut]

Dude, I'm trying to get an idea here. All I'm after is a ballpark, $5k, $10k, etc. There's no need to be all snide about it.

 

[cribbj]

There's a GZ build thread going on at the moment by our member Crambo, here: http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9809

Have a look in his thread, and perhaps ask these questions there and see if he could give you some ballpark figures.

BTW, Toyota ECU's are notorious for being a closed platform, so with a swap, especially a hotrod/racing swap, where the finished product doesn't necessarily have to be OBD compliant, an aftermarket ECU just makes things a lot easier. Most of the latest generation of aftermarket EMS's ought to be able to run this V12 without any problems. Nearly all of them have provisions for 12 injector outputs and at least 8 ignition outputs, so 6 coils in a waste spark setup would be no problem.

 

[wantahertzdonut]

There's a GZ build thread going on at the moment by our member Crambo, here: http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9809

Have a look in his thread, and perhaps ask these questions there and see if he could give you some ballpark figures.

BTW, Toyota ECU's are notorious for being a closed platform, so with a swap, especially a hotrod/racing swap, where the finished product doesn't necessarily have to be OBD compliant, an aftermarket ECU just makes things a lot easier. Most of the latest generation of aftermarket EMS's ought to be able to run this V12 without any problems. Nearly all of them have provisions for 12 injector outputs and at least 8 ignition outputs, so 6 coils in a waste spark setup would be no problem.

I'll ask around in there as well. It seemed like most of the thread dealt with getting the engine into an early Supra, but I'll re-read everything and post accordingly.

I was hoping to get the attention of whoever was building the Mk4 with a GZ, I would have sworn someone on here was doing that but I can't find the thread (of course, I could have easily overlooked it. I usually read the forum at work and my boss isn't too keen on internet usage so I have to be quick). I'm working on picking up a Mk4 locally (if the guy would just call me back) and would like do do a UZ swap, but a GZ came up on ebay (which I missed) which got me thinking. I should probably rename the tread, but for the most part I was just seeking information from anyone.

That makes sense about the ECU's, I hadn't thought about the factory ECU being trouble to work with. I see hacked ECU's on many other cars so I assumed it would be possible to work with the Toyota unit. I assumed people using them on the GZ's and UZ's went with an aftermarket unit since they didn't get a factory one in the first place.

 

[wantahertzdonut]

sorry that was kinda harsh, but seriously, no one can give you an answer to that, and it is kinda of typical DREAMER question which is why I get annoyed because if you have to ask chances are you have no clue what your actually asking about.

I see your point, and I am only beginning the research of what's needed to do a GZ swap. A GZ came up on ebay and it's what got my interest going. I'm sure I sound like a newbie but that's why I'm here, to learn.

 

[Crambo]

If you are in Aust, and you want to go manual you should work around $15k.

 

[cribbj]

Around five years ago I wanted to do a MKIV Supra swap with a V12 but was going to use the BMW motor because it's a SOHC unit, and more compact than the Toyota DOHC lump, and as we know, the GZ's are extremely scarce in the US, and the BMW's are plentiful and cheap.

As you may be aware, HKS or Top Secret TT'd a GZ motor and managed to fit into a MKIV Supra, but if you do a search around the Internet and find the stories about it, you'll see that it was quite an effort. I've "heard" that someone over on SF (Supra Forums) is currently trying to do it, but I don't know anything more.

I still believe the BMW V12 motor could fit the Supra, but have been thinking the last year or so that a BMW V10 might be an even better choice The V10 will be shorter than the existing 2JZ, so no problem on the length, and we already know that a 90 degree 1UZ V8 fits OK, so therefore a 75 or 72 degree V10 should be OK on the width, if its DOHC configuration and a long stroke don't screw things up.

I've been on the lookout for a V10 BMW or Audi lump to play with, as I think either one would be a cool motor to get into. Unfortunately they seem to be nearly as rare as the GZ's.

 

[Crambo]

Ask cribbj about his dry sump system as would be needed unless a GZ is fitted to a car that uses a front sump, a fair bit of pain to start out on.

 

[Crambo]

Hey guys, I posted #2 and another attempt but it seems I can only use the quick reply?
Any way, if your gunna do a GZ, first take your brave pills, buy a front cut with everything including the auto box.
Stock ecus (LH & RH) Drive by wire must use ONLY the Century accelerator pedal.
Toyota Aust, Retail price $2,035.00 (rubber bit you put your foot on is extra $18)

 

[wantahertzdonut]

I didn't realize it's drive-by-wire. Would that explain why everyone is making their own intakes?

 

[cribbj]

Ask cribbj about his dry sump system as would be needed unless a GZ is fitted to a car that uses a front sump, a fair bit of pain to start out on.

Get ready to dig deep for a dry sump system!

On the Toyota GZ it would probably have to be fabricated from scratch, and a location found/made for the oil reservoir. Lots of plumbing involved, as well.

In the BMW's case, we're gaining around 4" of ground clearance by drysumping, but I'm paying dearly for those 4".

To get an idea of the complexity and plumbing, have a look at Jay Esterer's web page for the engine in his Ultima: http://www.ultimav12.ca/engine/index.html

 

[gte]

Unless you are a fabricator (very very good tig welder), an ecu wiring master, and an electrical engineer ... figure 25k, maybe 30k for an almost stock running engine

If you're an electrical engineer, who's hobby is tig welding, you might be able to get away with 15k to 20k

Drive by wire has nothing to do with an intake manifold, you can put a standard mechanical linkage throttle body on any intake manifold.

I didn't realize it's drive-by-wire. Would that explain why everyone is making their own intakes?

 

[gte]

I own a couple of these engines by the way, just need to finishing make my garage bigger, putting a lift in, etc before I attempt to install

 

[wantahertzdonut]

Hmm, yeah it's starting to sound less and less worth it. Might as well buy an 850 if I want a V12.

gte- What are you installing yours in? One of your Supras?

 

[gte]

Yes, the Red one

If you want, I have a 2uz for sale pretty cheap, I was going to use it, and then I got the v12's

05 2uz vvti - $1900 plus shipping, it has 9k miles on it, has a harness as well that I didn't see any missing connectors from

Hmm, yeah it's starting to sound less and less worth it. Might as well buy an 850 if I want a V12.

gte- What are you installing yours in? One of your Supras?

 

[Crambo]

gte, have you got your engines at home yet?
If you have, please can you tell me the diameter of the pulley on the hydro fan pump.
I need such a pulley to run a stock belt at correct tension.

 

[wantahertzdonut]

Yes, the Red one

If you want, I have a 2uz for sale pretty cheap, I was going to use it, and then I got the v12's

05 2uz vvti - $1900 plus shipping, it has 9k miles on it, has a harness as well that I didn't see any missing connectors from

How much power do those put out? If I'm not mistaken, those are the engines that came in the Tundras and such. And is that the one that you could get the TRD supercharger for? Your price sounds like a nice deal, but I would need to get a proper home for it first. I don't think I want to drop one in my Mustang, but I'm on the prowl for a Supra. There was a fantastic deal on one locally but the guy would not call me back, and the craigslist ad has been recently pulled so I'm back on the hunt.

Should I get my hands on one, I'll let you know.

 

[gte]

Hey Crambo,

One's in the garage. I'll get a measurement for you and take a picture of what I'm measuring so I know I'm telling you accurate info.

gte, have you got your engines at home yet?
If you have, please can you tell me the diameter of the pulley on the hydro fan pump.
I need such a pulley to run a stock belt at correct tension.

 

[gte]

I believe they are 276hp/350tq. It is a great deal on the motor, you'll be a long time finding a good deal on a Supra shell, you might as well choose a motor for it and start building it now.

I'm sure the CL was a scam.

How much power do those put out? If I'm not mistaken, those are the engines that came in the Tundras and such. And is that the one that you could get the TRD supercharger for? Your price sounds like a nice deal, but I would need to get a proper home for it first. I don't think I want to drop one in my Mustang, but I'm on the prowl for a Supra. There was a fantastic deal on one locally but the guy would not call me back, and the craigslist ad has been recently pulled so I'm back on the hunt.

Should I get my hands on one, I'll let you know.

 

[Crambo]

Thanks gte, I have a water pump pulley I can use but I think the hydro one is smaller, so when I know measurements I will work out where to set it up as an idler.