Lextreme II
Active Member
I got a call this morning from my engine builder and he asked me if i am interested of heat treated my modified crank. He stated that heat treatment will strength the crank. What do u think?
Heat Treatment
- Thread starter Lextreme II
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David, tell him heat treating is old school, and you want that puppy cryo'd.... If they cryo it right, it'll also get heat treated in the process.
Matter of fact, tell him you want the pistons, rods AND block cryo'd ;-)
I like the look of drilled & slotted brake rotors, but they're notorious for cracking under heavy braking. Since I've been cryo treating my rotors, I've never had one crack.
All Nascar teams, and I'm sure all F1 teams are cryo treating all their engine components.
Audiophiles are cryo treating their speaker cables these days and claiming it makes a noticeable improvement in their sound.
Musicians are cryo treating their instruments for a fuller, richer sound.
There's a lot of real smart people out there who can't quite figure out exactly why cryogenic treatment works, but they do know that it does. Read some of the tech literature on the "legit" cryo websites like 300 below or Diversified Cryogenics. It's fascinating stuff.
John
p.s. I've used Diversified Cryogenics several times over the last five years and they do very good work at reasonable rates.
Matter of fact, tell him you want the pistons, rods AND block cryo'd ;-)
I like the look of drilled & slotted brake rotors, but they're notorious for cracking under heavy braking. Since I've been cryo treating my rotors, I've never had one crack.
All Nascar teams, and I'm sure all F1 teams are cryo treating all their engine components.
Audiophiles are cryo treating their speaker cables these days and claiming it makes a noticeable improvement in their sound.
Musicians are cryo treating their instruments for a fuller, richer sound.
There's a lot of real smart people out there who can't quite figure out exactly why cryogenic treatment works, but they do know that it does. Read some of the tech literature on the "legit" cryo websites like 300 below or Diversified Cryogenics. It's fascinating stuff.
John
p.s. I've used Diversified Cryogenics several times over the last five years and they do very good work at reasonable rates.
I've never really heard of heat treating as a process for parts; usually it's cryo treatment. But from what I've seen, if you treat a metal to give 2X in one area, it gives half in another. For instance, if you cryo treat your crank, it'll be twice as hard but half as tough. It's difficult to explain unless you understand metalurgic terms such as "hardness" and "toughness," but my point is, don't think that you can get something for nothing. Cryo treating IS a compromise. Now, whether it's one worth taking, I can't tell you. I know that in many cases, cryo has worked well.
Not trying to say anything either way, but just to add a few data points.
Not trying to say anything either way, but just to add a few data points.
We've actually been comparing heat treating and cryo treating to the process that David's mechanic asked him about which is more of a hardening procedure.
IMHO the terms "heat treating" & "cryo treating" relate to stress relieving the components. Some would argue with this and that's OK.
"Heat treating" to improve the hardness of a crank journal is an annealing or tempering procedure, and it's done for a different purpose. Induction hardening is also in that category, and it achieves slightly different results.
I think David's mechanic is actually wanting to harden the crank journals; I threw cryo treatment out on the table as a procedure to consider because it would treat the whole crankshaft, following (I assume) a machining operation.
IMHO, I think any high performance component that has been drilled, machined, or welded upon should be stress relieved, and I happen to be a big believer in the cryogenic process.
John
IMHO the terms "heat treating" & "cryo treating" relate to stress relieving the components. Some would argue with this and that's OK.
"Heat treating" to improve the hardness of a crank journal is an annealing or tempering procedure, and it's done for a different purpose. Induction hardening is also in that category, and it achieves slightly different results.
I think David's mechanic is actually wanting to harden the crank journals; I threw cryo treatment out on the table as a procedure to consider because it would treat the whole crankshaft, following (I assume) a machining operation.
IMHO, I think any high performance component that has been drilled, machined, or welded upon should be stress relieved, and I happen to be a big believer in the cryogenic process.
John
David, did you have the journals offset ground?
If no machining was done to the crank I would be very hesitant to have someone try to outdo the finishing treatment done in Japan.
If the journals have been machined you would definitely want to have the journals properly treated for the correct harness and finish.
If no machining was done to the crank I would be very hesitant to have someone try to outdo the finishing treatment done in Japan.
If the journals have been machined you would definitely want to have the journals properly treated for the correct harness and finish.
Lextreme II
Active Member
I will have the crank grind to 2.00" to mate with the Chevy rods. I am just asking for the extra service its like $300 extra.
I did alot of research on Cryo with the last motor I did, and was under the understanding that cryo treated the surface, and made the cutting edges stronger, with small increases in strength. Such as the crank journals, & cylinder walls would last longer with less wear.
That why it's used so often in rotors. makes them last longer.
Cryo is susposed to work better on softer metals like brass, and aluminum, then it does on steel. it also makes them more stable under heat cycles.
Max, I know a guy who treats Musical instruments. He keeps the temp lower, longer, and brings it up slower then what it standard for the industry. (Which are all better)
Plus he has a large unit, and is usally only treating a few instruments at a time.
He treated my block, crank, and head of a 4Cyl for $100.
He's in Arlington Heights. Let me know if you guys use this, I'll get you his #.
That why it's used so often in rotors. makes them last longer.
Cryo is susposed to work better on softer metals like brass, and aluminum, then it does on steel. it also makes them more stable under heat cycles.
Max, I know a guy who treats Musical instruments. He keeps the temp lower, longer, and brings it up slower then what it standard for the industry. (Which are all better)
Plus he has a large unit, and is usally only treating a few instruments at a time.
He treated my block, crank, and head of a 4Cyl for $100.
He's in Arlington Heights. Let me know if you guys use this, I'll get you his #.
Red Supra
New Member
Cryo treatment affects the entire metal structure. Sometimes it's used in combination with heat treatment. Check out http://www.metal-wear.com/index.htm
I had them do my stock pistons and connecting rods. They are located in Antioch, IL. They have a pretty good turn around time too!
Nitriding is a process that affects metal surface while leaving the core untouched. http://www.key-to-steel.com/Articles/Art117.htm
I had them do my stock pistons and connecting rods. They are located in Antioch, IL. They have a pretty good turn around time too!
Nitriding is a process that affects metal surface while leaving the core untouched. http://www.key-to-steel.com/Articles/Art117.htm
