Water/Meth injection setups

[Peewee]

Are there any setups out there that are setup like a fuel system?

ie, pump runs constantly and a solenoid opens/closes to regulator flow into air stream, unused solution just recirculated back into tank.

In other words, should I be worried about systems that only turn the pump on when they need to inject?
Wouldn't this severely reduce the life of the pump?

 

[Zuffen]

I've researched W.I pretty well and they all operate the same way.

I've heard of people using a fuel injector, in some case a cold start injector, to control the flow but you would also need a stainless injector and FPR.

Of the setups I've looked into the Aquamist is outstanding but it will cost a heap for an engine like ours.

Fine on 4 cylinders but V8's will need two pumps, two nozzles and the cost goes out the window.

I have a Snow Performance kit with the electronic controler that I got from Summit and it looks good and was reasonable.

One day my engine will run and I'll know if it's any good!

 

[cribbj]

There are systems that use a hydraulic accumulator to keep the line pressurised (and reduce the cycling of the pump), and a stainless steel solenoid valve to turn the injection on & off. I don't know if these systems could be suitable or not for PWM control, but the solenoid valves used are not nearly as fast as fuel injectors, so the frequency of the PWM wouldn't be as high, nor the control nearly as fine. From an engineering perspective, I like these systems, but whether the accumulator and solenoid valve really add value over a simple spring loaded check at the nozzle, and PWM control of the pump, I don't know.

I've done a fair bit of playing around with different strategies now, and I'm finding that fooling with the hardware, plus doing the usual due diligence on the Internet seems to be paying off in a better understanding of what works and what doesn't. It certainly is more expensive, but it's also very interesting!

BTW, many of the Shurflo pumps have internal pressure regulation, so you can deadhead the pump into a closed solenoid valve and it'll bypass internally at a set pressure. (You can also remove the internal bypass and fit the the pump with an external pressure regulator and vary the bypass pressure.)

 

[Peewee]

The Snow Performance 'stage 2' kit is by far the best I've seen for the money, but I don't really like the fact that the pump is constantly turning on/off to regulate the flow of injection.


I'd really like to use a bypass system with an external regulator but finding something that is designed to work with water isn't going to be easy (or cheap).

The Aquamist 2s system does look nice, but by the looks of the cost it would be about 2k AUD incl freight and duty/customs...
Just a tad too much.

 

[Peewee]

Just a thought which I'm sure someone has covered before, but what if I used a coolant/meth combo as opposed to water/meth.
Would that prevent the requirement to use stainless?

 

[cribbj]

I'd really like to use a bypass system with an external regulator but finding something that is designed to work with water isn't going to be easy (or cheap).

Norgren make them in bronze for around $150 USD. The outfit I bought my Shurflo pumps from sells a plastic model for around $25 USD. I've been running my setup with the plastic one and it seems to work fine; the Norgren regulator arrived recently, but I haven't tested it.

I don't like the Shurflo pumps that use an internal pressure switch to turn the pump on/off to regulate the pressure. That may be OK for carpet cleaners or insecticide sprayers, but neither of those applications is liable to wreck a very expensive piece of equipment if the pressure switch doesn't work. The toughest service for any motor is constant starting & stopping, and for an OEM to use this mode for pressure control is lame IMO.

Here's where I bought my 150psi Shurflo pump. These people were very helpful and modified the pump with an internal bypass valve before shipping it to me: http://www.systemacc.com/catalog/pr.../1544?osCsid=12e4c992e6defaac9d9f234d42aff6e2 These people also sell a lot of accessories for these pumps, which are designed to be used in the fertiliser/insecticide/carpet cleaning businesses, so the materials stand up pretty well to some pretty nasty chemicals.

The only thing I don't like about the Shurflo pumps are their plastic housings. It's not recommended to use metal fittings, with them, and if you do, you have to be very careful not to overtorque them or the female threads will crack in the housing, and then it's time for a new housing (AMHIK). That and the pumps do not like to be deadheaded without some form of bypass - the housings will burst (spectacularly, BTW) at some pressure over 250 psi (again, AMHIK). I've replaced two housings so far, and am getting pretty good at it......

 

[Peewee]

The toughest service for any motor is constant starting & stopping, and for an OEM to use this mode for pressure control is lame IMO.

My thoughts exactly. Which is why I may end up doing my own setup.

The price of the aquamist one is ridiculous. For that I could buy an Adaptronic and use that to control the W/I

 

[XR8tt]

On a budget turbo motor we have used a BMW windscreen washer pump. Feed from an alloy tank which is also sealed & pressurised from boost. running 70% ethanol /30% water.. No intercooler 600 h.p motor.. Trips in when boost 6Lb.... Fitted brass pipe just before throttle body plate with 6 small holes drilled which is checked before each run..

 

[JustenGT8]

Hmmm, my surflo pump must have come with the internal bypass valve as i haven't had any issues with it yet in 4 years? It does 'pulse' so i assume that's the bypass kicking in/out?

Anyways, appears as tough as nails....good flow and enough pressure. Handles alcohol/water mix no issues.

RE nozzles, while the aquamist setup is expensive you can buy their nozzles separately in a wide range of flow rates and they are the best i have used....and i have tried quite a few.

 

[Peewee]

Hmm, sounds like I should just take the chance with the Snow Performance Stage 2 kit.

Just for my interest roughly how long will, say, 5L last me?

Cheers

 

[Zuffen]

If I had one complaint about the Snow kit it's that the holding tank will be way too small.

It would be lucky to hold 3-4 litres.

I expect I'll find myself replacing the holding tank (or fitting a sup tank with a lift pump) as 4 litres would oly be 10 minutes or so of running at full flow.

 

[Peewee]

Oh, I plan to fit quite a large tank.
If I put it in the boot it will probably be a good 20L.
If its in the engine bay probably 2 x 8L or so.

 

[Zuffen]

My engine bay is only 700mm wide and has no area above the wheel arches (it doesn't have any!) and is only around 900mm long.

I may look at putting a tank in the front bumper.

For a 4x4 it has an engine bay on par with a Toyota Echo.

 

[Toysrme]

Ive sued te snow kit before. Tony Leung has used them several times.

I see nothing spcial with aquamist. You can buy full piggybacks that can do many things AND work the injectors for less than the aquamist kits & then use whatever parts you want.

Shurflo is so sworn by from so many but Ill tell the honest trueth. They're not unearthly and there are a billion knockoff designs for signifigantly less money. Ive used them before...

 

[Slicer]

If its going to be used in a FI setup, send this guy an email. His setups don't use any pumps and hes been using/selling them for a long time.

His name is Peter.

[email protected]

http://www.riceracing.com.au/