vvti and non vvti questions

[aniesigh]

Hi,
couple quick q's,
i'm building my truck (a suzuki Jimny) around a non vvti motor but have decided i potentially want to swap to vvti, and theres one going cheap if i make my mind up in the next 12 hours!

are the vvti engine mounts the same?

is it actually possible to get vvti motor to run and shift with stock ecu and stock trans?

is the vvti motor much bigger? its already incredibly tight for space although potentially possible to make abit more room.


If anyone can answer any or all of those q's asap it would be much appreciated and its a whole car i will be getting if that makes a difference to making it run out of the car properly (will have access to everything!)

Many thanks

 

[gloverman]

VVti will pretty much mount where an early motor will fit. There are a set of bolt holes for mounts in the same location as the early engines. They have better clearance at the back due to different head shape. VVti is no bigger. I have wired about 20 with stock ecu and about 5 of them where autos all working correctly. I can break through the immobiliser. There are a few non immobiliser ones out there but not many. I prefer the VVti over early engines as they go heaps better. CHeers

 

[aniesigh]

Gloverman thats brilliant thanks!
i've just found/thought of another potential problem which i have posted up in the driveline section but will ask you here too...
my current setup with the non vvti is using stock auto bolted to a kzj78 (i think, cant remember 100%) transfer box,
the vvti comes with 5speed auto which i gather will not mount to landcruiser transfer,
in which case what are my options?
can i mount the older 4speed behind vvti and loose 5th? or will ecu not like that?

is there a way of getting 4wd from the 5spd without running divorced transfer? (amazon transfer box?)

Can i fit the 4speed behind the vvti, use the stock ecu to run engine, and run compushift or similar to run the 4spd?


Cheers

 

[gloverman]

KJ78 wont bolt straight up but we have one running behind a 5 speed. Search vvti goodness and you will see a surf transfer behind a 5 speed. 5 speed is awesome offroad. plenty of other options depending on what you want to do. Cheers

 

[gloverman]

sorry it was the Vcross http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14890&highlight=vcross

 

[aniesigh]

Hi Gloverman, seen the pics thanks!
can you explain what you actually did to convert it? is the darker grey bit the 5spd tail housing, then the front of the surf housing cut off and a new machined one tigged on?

if that is the case, how does the new machined plate bolt and seal to the grey housing? is it bolted internally or is it just clamped with those long bolts that go from the transfer right into the gearbox?

If the output spline is bigger, how did you run it to the surf transfer? did you get a double ended female spline machined that matched the surf one end and 5spd the other? does it need to run in a bearing or is it unsupported between the back of the gearbox and the input to transfer box?

Any other advice much appreciated not many people seem to use the vvti's over here in the UK

 

[aniesigh]

Pics added

 

[gloverman]

You pretty much have what we did. Grey piece is the factory 5 speed rear housing with a new bearing fitted as they often spin in the housing. alloy plate welded on with lower bolts from transfer adaptor going all the way from adaptor into the gearbox body in stock position. Top holes in adaptor have been relocated as these are different from to 5 speed. They now go all the way through again. All machined to get lengths correct. Made up double female for splines. Sorted oil feeds to rear bearing and seals between the two. When mounted we made up a double gearbo mount so it uses the 5 speed mount and transfer mount to support the load. Customer uses the vehicle as a daily driver travelling about 150kms to go to work at the beginning of the week and home again at the end. Also used for 4x4 weekend trips. Box getting modified next year to allow switchable lockup and lockup in first as well. Running proper MT4 shifter/shift lock ecu and it works perfectly. Also removed the speed cut from the ECU and immobiliser bypassed. Cheers

 

[aniesigh]

Thats great thanks!
Do you know roughly how much longer (if at all ) it will end up compared to a 4spd with kzj transfer bolted straight on?
cheers

 

[gloverman]

Only about 50mm from memory. I also have a vehicle running around with the prado offset output tranfer but that one was done a bit differently but along the same lines. I dont have any photos for that one sorry. They can be made to fit though. Cheers

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Great info gloverman, nice to know that it can be done, after a LOT of searching the web I have only seen you do it! I can't believe that no one does an off the shelf kit for it...

Do you think with a bit of work on (or custom built) the output shaft, and a machined/cast transmition -> transfer box, the overall transmission length could be kept factory?

I'd love to run the 5 speed in my Hilux surf, but the cost of the custom bits, and then the resultant shifter/prop shaft mods to account for the transfer box moving, seems like a lot of money and effort to use the 5 speed, vs using the existing 4 speed with an aftermarket controller. (I know it's not as impressive....)

 

[gloverman]

When fitting a 1uz into a 4 cylinder surf the transfer moves forward anyway so the driveshafts need changing. Most move about 50mm so the 5 speed is likely to result in the shafts being the stock length for the vehicle. The VVti definately works best with the 5 speed. We machined ours as short as we could. We where happy with the length so didnt look at getting it any shorter. Cheers

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Thanks again Gloverman,

I didn't realise that the transfer box would have to move, as you can tell I've not started taking things apart yet and started measuring., - just trying to learn as much as a I can in preperation, which is sometimes frustrating when I've not seen a lot of the bits for my self (donor car and truck both still together and driveable).

I'll have a measure of the 1KZ and 1UZ bellhousings a the weekend to see how much stuff will have to get moved.

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Interestingly, for the sake of completion, My truck is now done and running.

The Transfer box did not move forward at all, I just spaced out the transmission mount up 25mm.

With 3" suspension lift at the rear, the stock prop shafts fitted fine.

If the engine had moved forward more than about 10mm, the radiator wouldn't fit in the stock location on the KZN-185.

 

[aniesigh]

Good to hear i never actually bought the VVti motor i was contemplating buying when i started this thread, and have since abandoned the project all together but have also started a different project for which i did buy a complete VVTi LS400 and am planning to run a LT230 behind the 5 speed in a divorced transfer setup. need to get underneath with a tape measure but i'm hoping it will fit!