TT 1UZ power level issues.

[stevieg]

Pt6262 ball bearing t4 housings, id1000's, ms3-pro, t56 magnum, Ross 9.5:1, TTC cromo rods, cometic MLS, ford Zetec main studs as head studs, ACL bearings. Etc etc

 

[FoPar]

Pt6262 ball bearing t4 housings, id1000's, ms3-pro, t56 magnum, Ross 9.5:1, TTC cromo rods, cometic MLS, ford Zetec main studs as head studs, ACL bearings. Etc etc

Looking forward to see what times she runs with the PTE 62's, the 6266 will be next ones for the Capri

 

[stevieg]

Well it's never going to be a fast car cause it's only got a 10.0 legal 5pt bar in it, as well as there's a few SFI certified parts that they just don't make for our engines that NHRA requires, SFI certified harmonic balancer being one

 

[rdm20fan]

I wish you guys luck. I can only inform you of my results. I Haven't built an all out race car. Other then no AC my SC400 still has every factory option. It's a street car, and it's taken a lot of little steps to slowly improve it's performance.
So far it's the quickest, and fastest SC400 on dragtimes.com
These are the results I have seen. 30+ psi on 10mm studs I think will lift the head. Keep us informed on what it does.

 

[FoPar]

yeah they are very strict over there with sfi, little more relaxed here.

You won't lift head at 30psi. As I said we have 350 1/4 mile passes, 150 dyno passes and 30000 miles street driving, all with 10mm head studs running 30-32psi. We run aggressive timing and when the motor was pulled down no signs of detonation. If the head is lifting with so little boost then something is going with tune etc.

 

[JustenGT8]

Yup, you are either getting det you aren't aware of or the gasket was compromised from when the stock head bolts stretched. That incident may have also softened that small section of the head?

Definitely strange but if you can live with the lower boost level then not really a drama?

 

[rdm20fan]

I am fairly certain that I'm not getting detonation. I've ruined head gaskets, and pistons before, and We have been very carefully checking the plugs looking for any sign. I don't think you can guarantee that 100% but I'm pretty sure.
I do think that the head gasket may have been compromised. It might not be a bad idea to take the heads off, and see if I see signs of 1 spot leaking, or multiple spots.
I am running stock 98 Lexus GS400 head-gaskets. I have talked with a few of the guys from Sound Performance and they liked the stock Toyota MLS head gasket vs the cometic. They recommended running the GS400 gasket.
The bore on the 2nd gen 1uz "GS400" gasket is the same as the 1st gen 1UZ.

For studs, I'm running the ARP kit David sell here on the site. 10mm

Maybe a new headgasket might not be a bad thing to try.

 

[stevieg]

Did you have the heads and block decked and checked and sure they are true? There seems to be an epidemic of people who decide to switch to MLS gaskets and only have the heads surfaced and don't do the block? Granted it's mostly the 7mgte guys but it happens

In the end though what I see is you're being stubborn in keeping this piggyback setup and blaming the failures on everything else instead of just sucking it up and going standalone. An ms3-pro is only like $1200 and will run the entire stock ignition system and allow you to simplify life and just run one stage of injectors, full timing control, boost control, 2step launch control, traction control etc

 

[rdm20fan]

I think you are putting to much glory in a stand alone. Putting a stand alone in my car won't change any issue that I am having. It will spend $1200, and then I'd have to change out my intake, and my second fuel system to then spend more money on correcting the stock fuel system.
I don't see an advantage.
A new ecu will not stop me from pushing out coolant.
It can't be from detonation as it happened at different boost levels with different head studs. If it was detonation it would continue at the same boost level.
You are hearing success with an aftermarket ecu, and assuming it's the only correct way.
My car starts n runs like a stock 93 sc400, would be able to pass emissions is I had cats on the car. It is a 100% stock running automobile. A toyota tech can plug in and read trouble codes.
This is stuff you can not do with an aftermarket ecu.
There is more then 1 way to skin a cat, and playing follow the leader because someone did it first is not always the right way.

If you had a stock SC,LS,GS400 and wanted to add this to your car, and still keep everything (after you beef up the tran and rods,pistons) you can drive around in a 500-600-700hp daily driver. Pass emissions, leave trac control alone, and get basic service done by any toyota tech.

My way may not be the best for an all out race car, but for a street car that starts n runs, and does basically every thing lexus intended, and then still runs 11,s and 130+mph trap speeds I think I'm doing something right.

If a full bodies SC400 LS400 GS400 is running better times I'd like them to post it on dragtimes.

 

[rdm20fan]

Standalones are great, and work really well, for most wide open throttle applications. Racing.
But you have to get them tuned. That is an additional cost.
Getting them to run, start and act like toyota intended at everything other then WOT takes someone who really knows what they are doing. That expense can be large.

It's not a $1200 part and it's done, and it doesn't come with zero drawbacks.

This car car multiple 130+mph trap speed passes. The ET is still something I'm working on.
If that does not show what the set up is capable of them I don't know what to tell you.

If a stand alone is the right choice for your car that's great, but it's not the only option.

 

[cribbj]

Standalones are great, and work really well, for most wide open throttle applications. Racing.
But you have to get them tuned. That is an additional cost.
Getting them to run, start and act like toyota intended at everything other then WOT takes someone who really knows what they are doing. That expense can be large.

It's not a $1200 part and it's done, and it doesn't come with zero drawbacks.

This car car multiple 130+mph trap speed passes. The ET is still something I'm working on.
If that does not show what the set up is capable of them I don't know what to tell you.

If a stand alone is the right choice for your car that's great, but it's not the only option.

Well said Bob; many of us who went down the standalone road now wish we hadn't for the very reasons you mention. And the "tuners" tend to think that once they've eked out the last HP on the dyno their job is done. Never mind that the driveability is so poor the car is miserable to (try to) drive on the street. Mr. Toyota has legions of very bright engineers and technicians that spend hundreds of manhours getting this right for each powertrain/car, so there's no hesitation, stalling, or starting issues, and the idle is smooth as glass. Who are we to think some guy who calls himself a tuner can do better with minimal instrumentation, in half a day on a Dynojet?

But each generation of standalones (and tuners) is improving..... Maybe the MS3 Pro really is the silver bullet finally, but it still can't pass a routine OBDII scan.

Kudos to you for taking this car & package as far as you have. There's a lot of silent admirers of your work here.

 

[rdm20fan]

Thanks Cribbj, i appreciate your comments
.
Truth is there is on right way. My set-up has advantages, and disadvantages. Just as I'm sure yours, and every other person on here trying to build their own version of what they like does.
My only goal for posting is so the person putting something together can read, and make a decision on what they want to do with the project they have. When in all reality the best thing to do is leave it alone.LOL Some of us just can't seem to do that.
The majority of what I do on the site is read, and try to learn form everybody else.
There is no part that is 100% pure gold with no disadvantages.
You and I just have to find what we are willing to deal with in the goal of added performance.

My car kept growing from one mild modification to another.
There was a lot of learning, and trying to solve the issue of one problem. seeing what that caused, and trying to solve the next issue.
My car was not drawn out on a board with a clear path to the finish line. This is a path of lots of bumps n bruises.
I'm pretty sure there isn't another 1UZ running the HP numbers on a stock ECU (Whether that's smart or not)
I don't know if there is another Toyota Motor of any kind running a stock ECU producing the HP numbers that Chris and I have got.

 

[FoPar]

we would never change from going standalone. if you think you can't get to drive a car with a standalone and have it drive like stock, come for a drive in the Capri. we passed emissions with flying colours on pump gasoline. everyone has different goals.

first we done this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0S8EfmLTZk ran 6-7 low 8-sec passes all within 1/10th then drove her home, as you can hear, it doesn't sound nor behave like a 1200hp 1UZ all we do is strap on the chute and take the air filters on. it drives on the same tune it races http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE8Sx-Yqwc0

ok, if it's not the stock ECU then something else is going on with lifting the head as i know of alot of guys running the same or more boost with no issues. if it's lifting at different boost levels then that's something else causing it. we have seen 100's of passes with no lifting at all, with 1200hp, that's the proof in the pudding at how well the right well tune standalone ECU can do.

 

[cribbj]

Cool article on building an electronic stethoscope for detecting det: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=113153

 

[Zuffen]

I agree with John about drivability.

I was making great horsepower and the car was a blast to drive but some day sit didn't want to play ball and start or perhaps it didn't want to idle.

I probably should have used a tuner more into 1UZ's and the stand alone I ran.

I ended up going back to a stock engine and factory ECU just for the drivability.

I dropped 350ish FWHP and gained 25litres/100klm in economy and still enjoy the car. I can even drive it in the rain now!

Looks lie John is on the Autospeed mailing list as I got the same information on the knock detector and it's got to be a good thing.

If you haven't subscribed to Autospeed I recommend it as he does some interesting stuff.

 

[FoPar]

they don't have to specialise in a 1UZ. A good tuner can tune anything. If they are familiar with the ECU it definitely helps.. I do all the track tuning, if I can do it anyone can lol

To gain that much fuel economy they did something wrong, we average about 14L/100km on E85

 

[rdm20fan]

FoPar, the car is very impressive, but I don't think the car would pass emissions here in the US. I also don't know if I'd call that a street car. Just because it can be driven on the street doesn't fit the definition of street car I'm my opinion. I would call that a race car.
Don't get me wrong, it's very impressive, and the work done to the car is also impressive.
does the car have an interior.?I assume you have a cage in the car.

My car still has 100% factory optioned minus the Air conditioning.
I still have climate control, heated seats, the 6 disc cd changer is still in the trunk.

 

[FoPar]

Yes has full interior and a cage, needs to because of times it runs. Weighs 3220lbs and races on a 275 radial. When you run 8's at close to 170mph you need to compromise unfortunately. The car is safer and drives better than the day it left the factory floor.

Australia is alot stricter than anywhere else with street cars, the car is fully engineered and more than passes the rules to be driven on the street legally. It could be driven daily..

 

[rdm20fan]

Yes has full interior and a cage, needs to because of times it runs. Weighs 3220lbs and races on a 275 radial. When you run 8's at close to 170mph you need to compromise unfortunately. The car is safer and drives better than the day it left the factory floor.

Australia is alot stricter than anywhere else with street cars, the car is fully engineered and more than passes the rules to be driven on the street legally. It could be driven daily..

I hear what you are saying. My definition of a street car may be different then yours, and that's ok.

In the US you basically have to had DOT approved tires, lights, windshield, and seatbelts to be street legal
My opinion is street legal doesn't equal street car.

To me a street car is basically a stock vehicle when it comes to options. unmodified. as soon as a car puts in a cage, removes the bumpers, takes options out like radio/washer sprayer/trac control/AC stuff like that I consider that more of a race car that is legal to drive on the street.

Now I have removed my AC (Couldn't get the down-pipe in with the compressor in the way) other then that, this is how I run the car at the track. I switch the stock tires out in the back and put on a 28 inch slick.
I even run the stock wheels and tires up front. No skinnies.
Other then the rear tires my SC is exactly the way it runs on the street.
No cage, no harness, no parachute, no weight reductions.

None the less, this is not a debate, nor a competition of my car vs yours. Your car is awesome. It leaves the line great, and has some great HP to get 3200 lbs to run 160+ mph in the 1/4
I think you have convinced me to try a couple of MSD coils, and try to change out the head-gaskets with some new ones while the car is down getting painted.

I still think I'm going to try and run another set of the 2nd gen (GS400) head gaskets over the Cometic unless anyone has heard anything to convince me other wise.
Looking back I did get a hiss sound when i took one of the stock bolts out. I think I may have loosened more then 1 bolt at a time when I was switching them out.
I think we did have a little bit of coolant in 1 cylinder when we changed out the head studs.
We had to many chiefs working on the car at one time. it got a little confusing for me to keep track of.

 

[FoPar]

I wouldn't be concerned with gaskets, coils etc. There's more to it, the power isn't showing, to run 131mph with a car weighing say 3700lbs you need about 600-620hp at the engine. Factory headed and 8.5:1 CR we were seeing that power on about 15psi and around 730hp@23psi on gasoline, with E85 mix you should be up 20-30hp more.