Pistons

The 1UZFE EGR Delete Kit is available for sale here.

Chicken Wing

New Member
Messages
46
Location
Sydney, Australia
Haha, slowly ill get through every engine part.
Anyway I was just wondering, how heavy are those Ross pistons?
Ive been looking for a 'box' design similar to Mahle and CP's X-Forgings to save weight. I figured spinning to 10k, for the rods sake (Argo) it would be nice to save some weight up there.

I like the idea of the high ring landing so there's less place for the fuel to sit between strokes, and I also like the idea of having less weight and less sleeve to rattle down the bore.
But as Im learning, everything in an engine is a compromise...
So whats the catch with box design pistons?

This might be the slowest build in history, but theres so much cool stuff to learn in that dense alloy block.
Got 32 titanium valves now:tongue:, kept the stems long until ive decided what to do about cams, also 2JZ springs seem to be the only option to uprate past 100lbs of seat pressure. But with the super light Ti valves...will I even need a super hard spring?

I just jacked my own thread. Thanks guys, Jozef.
 
Thanks Lex, has anyone spun these to 10k? (besides that hypo drag 2uz)
I mean, its no real feat, these engines are the right stroke and well balanced, alot of the hard work has already been done, but knowing that it can be done reliably is pretty key for me.
 
Spot on Zuff, thats what Argo told me aswell.
But I have to wonder, what would be more stressful:

1) A 420gm Piston spinning to 9000rpm
or
2) A 390gm piston spinning to 10000rpm

Time to whack out the old physics textbook, I think Argo would rate their rods conservatively and Im almost positive I could spin a lighter piston faster with no other consequences other than an increase in oil pressure...

Does that sound reasonable?
 
Just pent up a visit to my local machinist who was cutting down the Ti valves and, he snapped them. Not all, but a few, not too upset, but am I trying to do the impossible here?
 
Not the impossible but perhaps the unnecessary.

Why rev it to 10,000rpm?

I believe the heads will restrict flow at those revs and you would be better off (from a drivability point) to have your power and torque down lower.

I know you will make less outright power but at least it will be drivable.

Anything over 7,500 on a V8 is revving it becasue it sounds good.

For the cost of going 10,000rpm and N/A it would be cheaper to strap a turbo on the side, or both sides. And I'm not at turbo fan.
 
Overkill and unnecessary are both an avid part of my vocabulary.

See,the engine is going to go into an IS200, similar to what Arnout has done (http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10833), and similar to MOS's car (http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15314)

Ive been looking into turbo for a long time...
But the only problem here is Im not sure where the turbos would go, Id be assuming rear low mount, but theres a steering rack smack in the center of the drivers side. right where Id imagine the turbo to be.

Arnout! This is a cry for help! If I know they can fit, its as easy as that.

This massive cam, massive rpm, multiple throttle bodies and exhaust tuning is all doing my head in. Those turbos you have lex...are they ball bearing?
 
nothing is impossible in this kind of build. Rod is 1/2 right in the sense that an NA high rpm build is an incredible exercise in spending money, but 1/2 wrong in suggesting its a waste of time. certainly not impossible

na engines make numbers through a combination of cubes and rpm. how far you want that rpm to go (and thus how hight your hp numbers) depends on how much folding you own. also depends how much experience you/your engine builder has at this level of engine development. +130hp/L is no mean feat

so yeah 10k is easily doable, but its going to take a lot more than rods and pistons. i like the CP x forging, and will be trying them on the next build. Ti valves are nice, no you wont need a spastic spring, but id suggest something like my 2E51892 performance spring if going into the double digits. youll need to play close attention to the bearings and oil control

as for the head... reach for the die grinder and dont stop

1uz_dyno_final_0001.jpg
 
I totally agree Ed, its gotta be a whole lots more than rods and pistons, (can I use the stock crank though?).
So ill break it down thus far...

6mm Int & 6mm Exh valve guides..(got blanks, but need some beryllium copper to machine the final product) or that bronze alloy they call 'Trojan'.

Ti Valves (uncut stems)

Argo rods

Block Cleaned and honed

Regrind cams (and then cut valve stems longer so theres no need to re-shim)

Ive got a nice 6 stage Auto verdi dry sump pump here, if i go N/A, this will be a key component.

I cant remember exact figures but most components have a much smaller tolerance than factory (bigger bearings, larger valve stems...etc), so break in might be long but should keep oiling issues down. I dont really want to have to run 140+psi of oil pressure, keep the tolerances down and hopefully limit that oil pressure to <100psi.

Need to pick pistons, I lke the X-forging aswell. Mini Groupbuy?

I like those 2E51892 springs, cant be bothered to calculate seat pressure but should be on the money I think. I had no idea you had a connection with performance springs in QLD ed?

Probably want to try some coatings, If i go lpg it will be a 12:1 compression with a Molybdenum Disulfide coating which should keep oil around even though its a dry fuel.

still gotta reach for that die grinder though.

if some greasemonkey in Maranello can do it...so can i.

And ive barely spent 3000AUD yet. (I design myself, and let others machine)
I feel a bit unmodest right now, but im just so damn proud...

Im loving that 308kw mate, i know it can be done.

Arnout? Can i fit turbos? Last call :notworthy:
 

Attachments

  • megasquirt200710141429_Partial_Tuned.zip
    5.7 KB · Views: 37
Ive got a nice 6 stage Auto verdi dry sump pump here, if i go N/A, this will be a key component.

I cant remember exact figures but most components have a much smaller tolerance than factory (bigger bearings, larger valve stems...etc), so break in might be long but should keep oiling issues down. I dont really want to have to run 140+psi of oil pressure, keep the tolerances down and hopefully limit that oil pressure to <100psi.
If you plan to use high rpm's then main/big end bearing and rod side clearances need to be a LOT larger than factory. 60psi oil pressure (hot) is adequate.

Argo rods are OK but on the heavy side for 9000 rpm

You WILL need shim under buckets.
 
Hey RMS,

Thats really interesting about the oil pressure, i can imagine it in my head. It seems similar to a tyre pressure thing, small tyre big pressure etc...

Nascars commonly run at 40-60psi of oil pressure aswell from what ive heard.
I like the idea of bigger spacings, this means less friction aswell...

Yup its a 3UZ, so shim under bucket is standard....once I get the cams done i might even decide on shimless bucket as the valves are almost 5" long so i can just cut them a lil' longer...

Is $770 decent for a regrind of 4 cams, where the base-circle will be modified?

Thanks for chiming in RMS!
 
id be talking to peter waggot about cam profiles as hes been involved with the develpment and changes in profile on my engine and also several other vvti engines in IPRA. he charges about 120+gst from memory per cam for simple grinding. but honestly, the kind of engine youre talking about deserves a proper set of cams. the existing cams are TINY and youll hardly get a decdnt profile into them, let alone any lift. cost of a complete weld and regrind is about $1400 just get it done properly

see the original cam profile hidden in there... how much you think youre going to be able to grind into it?

1uz_cams_0003.jpg

my only association with perf springs is that im using them, and have sold half a dozen sets around the place as a compatible spring for the uz head, far better than a 2jz spring, and reasonably priced. theyve not demonstrated float over 10,000rpm on std 5.5mm 2000+ vvti valves.
 
Yeah, i was looking at some new kelfords or similar only the do the 1UZ cams, and not the 3UZ or the vvti cams, that made things a little more difficult, I would much prefer a hardweld THEN regrind, but where?

And at that, may I ask where you went for yours ed?

Now this is the only part of my build so far where I am completely lost.
What profile should I be looking at for a vvti engine revving to 10k, with the standard variable length intake manifold. Im assuming i can run a more aggressive cam due to the vvti retardation (even though it doesnt work as well with huge duration) and the variable length intake, but say I wanted to keep a reasonable idle to run PS, AC & Alternator.
Im very willing to build the rest of the engines to the cams' spec, I belive it is the most crucial thing left.

None of this stage I stage II stuff...id like to know some specs...
 
And at that, may I ask where you went for yours ed?

ahem...

id be talking to peter waggot about cam profiles

have a read of my build thread, probably a bit in there youd be interested in:

http://www.v-eight.com/tech_forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=99&start=0

not too many people to ask this kind of info from on the net, so read wisely, and keep you bullsh1t filter set to 'on' ... a lot to larn from cosworth cam profiles, and youll need a good builder. id suggest talking atleast to mrk yager ... anyways, read that thread, and make phone calls. stay away from the intahweb
 

Attachments

  • Camry 001.jpg
    Camry 001.jpg
    58.8 KB · Views: 147
  • Camry 002.jpg
    Camry 002.jpg
    59.6 KB · Views: 144
Alright read it start to end, epic build mate.
Is it running again yet? How bad was the damage to the rod? Got all the cams redone?

Ive got a feeling it would have been easier to just say "Waggot cams" rather than quoting me in your post but there some awesome stuff on your forum so ill forgive it.

Now I need to get in touch with Eric (cowboy) or waggot to talk cams.

There wasnt much bullshit in your build diary, most was useful, web warriors always give me the willies so bullshit filter is always on high. The internet should only supplement information, you gotta know what your looking for, or find someone who does before you get all riley on google. Otherwise you become one of those web warriors youself.

Haha you topped the F430, gratz!
 


Top