Need some advice, oldschool sound needed

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George_R

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Hi All! Have been posting in wiring/electrical section for a while and just thought I could find a great deal of qualified help here.

I sometimes swap 1UZs, the reason I'm here, but the question is about my own car. It only has 1JZ 2.5l n/a straight-six swapped in, which has adequate balance of everything for me so I'm pretty stick to it.

I'd like to get some oldschool sound with slapping, rumble, strong mid-range frequencies, that would resemble some stang or whatever. I do realise that I would not get 100% exact copy with displacement twice as small, however I'd be happy if it gets close enough.

Once I occasionally almost got this kinda sound, but it was too loud and annoying at mid-rpm. Now I can't repeat my previous result cause it was made cheap and dirty from wreckyard parts, and with brand new well-priced parts the sound is good, but is 100% opposite to what I'm looking for.

As far as I could understand from reading this section, I should go after system with 2 pipes running off extractor, 1 balancing pipe instead of x- or y-part, then 2 small resonators, then one big resonator.

Just wanted to confirm or flame that, any advice would be of great value. The 2 key parameters for me are: gain more rumble (sound less mellow and smooth) and not lose too much of the low to mid rpm torque, which is quite modest already.
 
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p/s a couple pix of what's currently in and what's wrong with it
downpipe is 2x43mm into 1x63mm. Stock part was 2x43 into 1x63. Cat deleted, small resonator fitted instead to prevent sparks, flames etc from advancing to muffler.

No resonator. Muffler is 180mm x 400mm (tight fit) straight thru design with 2 chambers.

Sound is way too smooth, with high frequencies too damped. Over 3000rpm at full load surprisingly silent, with nice rumble, but feels too contemporary overall.

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To give some audible idea: it now sounds like some magnaflow system for a generic european car . The intention is to bring sound closer to say cherry bomb glasspack classic 70's sound.
 
Sorry to say it mate, but I don't think you'll get the sound you want from a 1JZ, the old school slapping comes from unbalanced pipes on V-engines due to the firing order.

With all the exhaust coming through the same headers it's not going to get that old school sound, using a balance pipe of some sort won't make a different on a straight engine, they're for balancing exhaust gases on V style engines.

Only thing I think you could do is have 2 separate exhaust manifolds (3 cylinders each) and run them completely separate to the tailpipes.

It sounds like a lot of work and I still think it'd sound like 2 little Corollas running with a misfire.

Would be easier just to use a 1uz with separate pipes
 
OK, g'bye slapping etc -I forgot that cylinder banks are connected in the extractor near its output flange. But still I can make it sound and perform a bit better?

When I first made exhaust system I just wanted to drive the car ASAP and didn't pay attention at all, but surprisingly the sound was interesting and it wasn't like anything JZish I heard on y-tube. Until 2000 under load it sounded with lots of bass popping (outside the car it was 100% resemblance of AMG V8 exhaust, I was very surprised I could get exactly the same sound with such a small engine). Above 3000 it sounded like some old Alfa Romeo V6, with plenty of middle frequencies and rumble. The problem was between 2000 and 3000 RPM, there were lots of drone in the sound, completely undriveable.

My next version of exhaust is on the pictures above, it's quieter but it sound just like any other car with straight-thru mufflers.

So maybe there's a way to make it sound a bit different. Not v8 style though, but still with rumble and more mid frequencies? Which configuration do I need then? Straight thru or chambered, muffler or resonator or both? Oval or hot dog etc?

And one more problem. I run 2x1.7" pipes down extractor, it's stock size for 1JZ. At this point I won't go for say 2x2" cause I don't want to lose anything in low to mid torque. However I can hear some hiss from the pipes, which increases as load and RPM increase. I've cleaned welding artifacts from inside very thoroughly and made very smooth Y-transition so I believe it's just the speed of gas being too high there. I believe that was the way to push exhaust gases thru the cat more quickly.

The question is - stock setup used a cat after Y-pipe, I don't use one. In my case, can I run 2x2" pipes without losing the low end?
 
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IMO, if you copy the way of the V8 firing order and have two separate (3 Cly. each) small headers (to keep low end torque) into two "separate" big mufflers.

may it will work for you
 
mshawari1
Cylinders are already grouped within stock headers in 2 banks x 3 cylinders, and stock firing order ensures bank alternating upon each spark. So there's no possibility to further increase time between them because new header will be similar in grouping cylinders.

On the downside, the 2 stock banks have small interconnection between them near stock header's flange (it still has 2 outlets), is it too bad?
 
Try a split manifold like old school inline hot rods. 3 cyls go to one muffler, 3 cyls go to another muffler. ;)
 
Cheers mate! I think that's likely the only way to go, though 6-2-1 is worth a try when the 2 pipes are different lengths.
 
Before I swaped my supra from 7m-ge to 1uz I ran the stock header with no cat. I welded up a custom pipe that replaced the cat and ran down under the fire wall and back about 8 inches. Welded a flange on that and bolted up a 28 inch long 2.25 inch thrush tube glasspack and welded a 90 degree flat sided tip exiting twards the ground and hung it from a bracket I made that bolted to the empty holes from the old drive shaft caryer berring. It ended about 16 inchs infront of the rear diff and had a nice loud rumble. After the swap I basicly made a new pair and very similer with no x over or sutch and it sounds sweet. I get lots of the old time hotrod and mucle car guys comeing over to check out my car at cruse nights. They always think I have a ls1 or 5.0 stang engine swap in and can't beleve its a toyota engine untill they see it. Its always "I can't beleave thats a japanese engine, it dosent sound like a trash can full of bees". LOL. I will look around and see if I have any pics tonight when I get home.
 
redrocco, it would be very interesting to see your setup, thanks!
what's 7m-ge stock header look like? Suppose it's 6-2-1 type since you told about just one cat and one pipe replaced?

1jz-ge's part is 6-2 type, with 2-1 pipe being important for overall sound. I noted that running the 2-1 "Y" part just at header's output flange , and provided the part has big inner volume (maybe acting as cavity resonator or something) makes a lot of rumble that's very similar to that of v8's , however you lose some low end and the sound is too loud. I made that part the other day by occasion and couldn't repeat the sound since then.

p/s no wonder why a v8 with two glasspacks, no balancing pipe and no cat sounds like a stang :) which has the same setup :) Sadly the red mufflers are not available here.
 
The 1JZGTE will never sound like a V8, because it isn't. Inline is smoother by nature, even with the longer crankshaft.

For a deeper manly sound with some burble, swap to a 7M. Sound clips available.
 
to sum it up
y-pipe with BIG inner volume mouted right at exhaust manifold outlets does produce some rumble at low end under high load but is too loud. Ended up installing middle resonator with 3 chambers sized as large as I could fit under the car. Gained a lot in the low end and overall response, and it sounds very silent and nice overall. No thrash cans with bees either :)
 
I don't know if its worth re-doing the headers however think about the difference between an odd fire v8 (old American) and one of the exotic even fire v8's. Some people have built 180 degree headers (google it) to make their oddfire v8 sound like an evenfire. They basically cross one of pipes over into the opposite collector from each side. You could do the opposite of this by making your headers stagger the exhaust pulses to the opposite collector (I would then do a true dual with no crossover, the crossover tends to smooth out exhaust notes) The difference is amazing between the 90's chevy v6's and the ford v6 because of the oddfire/vs evenfire. The chevy engines could be mistaken for a v8 much easier then the Ford. Check it out, and check out mustang/camaro v6 engines of that vintage with exhausts on them to hear the difference.
 
tylerc as you can see one post above, I've already solved my problem, though in a bit different manner.

Overall this is a great fact that "vintage" V8 sound is produced when exhaust gases interfere with each other in odd manner. And its side effect that 180 degrees manifold would make a v8 sound rather like ferrari or something.

My experiments show however that "odd" extractor style is not the only way to produce excessive interference - for example big volume mounted right at exhaust manifold outlet produces effectively the same sound (and also healthy drop at the low end).

My final version of exhaust gained a lot in the lows while keeping the sound pretty silent. And it produces distinctive roaring at WOT above 3000 rpm - not that of a V8 but nowhere close to RICE. So I've found my degree of balance between sound and performance. Think if I ever do something to my engine (except regular servicing) it will be swapping a 3uz-fe in place of it.
 


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