Liquid LPG injection

redback

New Member
sent an emaill off to the company. looks to be around the $2500 misus the $2000 the goverment give us for installing LPG.. so for 500 bucks its a bargan
 

edz

New Member
lpg inljection

I have been waiting on the edge of my seat for this technology to become available and have all the bugs ironed out.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/6D173CE2202DBAF8CA2574720013A02A

It looks like it is still at least 6 months away from being a reality.

For FI it has to be the answer to a lot of prayers with the charge cooling effect.
Looks like a great system and I'd love to see it here in 6months, however, I've been following this for 5 years, and it's always been '6-12 months away from production' when I enquire - I wouldn't hold your breath!

Costs - I'd guess around $3500 but most likely higher to have inectors that can give enough fuel for a v8. $2500 seems too cheap - most decent vapour non-injection systems seem to be selling for $3000 at the moment, with vapour injection for $3500 to $6500 - and you generally get what you pay for.

BTW - how would it go with turbo systems?
 

Death By Bass

New Member
I saw an XR6 turbo running LPG...

I have to assume this was an old style LPG system, which are prone to back firing..

surely this is going to result in your turbo being in a dozen pieces inside your engine? :/
 

Cobber

New Member
components are available, a complete kit is about $3,000. There is no 1uz kit and never will be but you can buy all the components and make your own. A friend here is in the process of ordering a kit to do his car.
The new tank has a built in pump, new injectors and regulator it also has effectively a piggy back ecu which he will junk as he is going to run a standalone.

I believe boosted systems are ok and fuel pressure is referenced the same as any boosted system.

I will get details from him and post.
 

-Nemesis-

New Member
I saw an XR6 turbo running LPG...

I have to assume this was an old style LPG system, which are prone to back firing..

surely this is going to result in your turbo being in a dozen pieces inside your engine? :/

It would have been sequential vapour injection like I have. Individual injectors controlled by an ECU.
 

edz

New Member
components are available, a complete kit is about $3,000. There is no 1uz kit and never will be but you can buy all the components and make your own. A friend here is in the process of ordering a kit to do his car.
The new tank has a built in pump, new injectors and regulator it also has effectively a piggy back ecu which he will junk as he is going to run a standalone.

I believe boosted systems are ok and fuel pressure is referenced the same as any boosted system.

I will get details from him and post.
Cobber, do you know what the injectors are rated at, I had a look at a very good vapour system - but to go above 200kw you had to go to larger injectors - with a $1200 increase in price.
 

Death By Bass

New Member
Cobber, do you know what the injectors are rated at, I had a look at a very good vapour system - but to go above 200kw you had to go to larger injectors - with a $1200 increase in price.
when I was looking, the biggest injectors I could find would require me to run two per cylinder for the power I was aiming for, which would of course require a custom intake manifold :greddy2:
 

cribbj

"Supra" Moderator
Staff member
At one time, Prins reckoned their largest Keihin injectors were good for around 50 HP per cylinder.

The Prins rep that I knew had installed these on his supercharged Cobra Mustang, and was making around 600 HP to the wheels, IIRC. If you figure 80-100 HP lost to the supercharger, plus 15% drivetrain loss, that's not bad.
 

Cobber

New Member
edz,

Don't know what the injector size is but they were going to be big enough for a supercharged 1uz. I did have a chat with my friend and he has put his L LPG system on hold due to a high number of in tank fuel pump failures. This requires a whole new tank because they are sealed in the tank.

I would suggest contacting the system manufacturers direct it's a bit hard to get good info second hand.
 

Cobber

New Member
My friend went to vapour injection with the profire ecu.

Still don't know of anyone running liquid LPG injection.

Please tell me you have a 1uz in that Kombi.
 

-Nemesis-

New Member
My friend went to vapour injection with the profire ecu.

Still don't know of anyone running liquid LPG injection.

Please tell me you have a 1uz in that Kombi.
My vapour LPG has been shitting me, but I think it comes down to the actual multivalve in my cheap tank. I don't think it can cut the mustard and the shut off valve is way too sensitive. I can get the emergency valve to shut sometimes when i floor it :(

Time to look for a decent multivalve.
 

_666_

New Member
can someone with Liquid LPG on their 1UZ take some pics of the injector rails, and the system,and post them on here ? my LPG fitter would like to have a look,

Thanks
 

cribbj

"Supra" Moderator
Staff member
Autospeed Article: Hybrid Hyundai uses Liquid LPG Inj

Very informative article this week in AutoSpeed on the new Hyundai hybrid that uses liquid LPG and Li Ion batteries. http://autospeed.com/cms/A_111460/article.html

I have never understood why the alternative fuels and hybrid crowd have chased every possible wacky solution under the sun save the one that's already established with an existing infrastructure, cheap, and right under their noses. LPG.

Go Hyundai!
 

JustenGT8

New Member
I'm seriously considering liquid LPG for the new engine....hardware costs are up there though which is putting me off a bit.

I need a system that utilises as much of what i have in place as possible including ECU control....thoughts?
 

Attachments

hypronet

Member
Hi all

I have included a link to this new "JTG Liquid LPG Injection systems" which i am looking into!!

http://www.alpgw.com.au/Products/Systems/JTG-Liquid-Injection.aspx

Just to cover a few topics about it. The system has no requirement for any injection timing strategies. Full control of the system is via the factory engine management system. This is quite different to standard vapour injection systems as they need to manipulate the injection pulse with due to pressure, temperature, and flow issues. The JTG controller is only there to switch the pulse from the petrol to lpg injectors and control the LPG pump.

The system is quite similar to a petrol system. The cylinder has a pump integrated that pushes the LPG to the injectors common rail. This is then ran through a pressure regulator similar to a petrol regulator and fed back to the tank via a return line. The pressure is kept 3 bar over tank pressure.

The injectors deliver liquid LPG directly into the manifold via a small tube. This is installed much the same as vapour injection. A hole is drilled in the manifold as close to the petrol injector as possible and a nozzle is taped in. The difference is that the liquid is passed through a small inner hose that is inserted into the nozzle. An outer hose is then placed over the smaller hose and onto the outside of the nozzle.

The injector is made by Siemens specifically for the JTG system. The flow of this injector is matched to the flow of the petrol injector via a calibration tip inserted into the housing. This is all developed by them before the kit is sent out. They measure the flow of the petrol injector for each vehicle type and then select the appropriate calibrator and injector combination. This is then tested for power, drivability, economy and Emissions. Once they have a final match, the system is then sent to the emission lab for certification.

The end result is a complete kit with brackets, plug and play wiring and ready to bolt on and drive. They have seen huge fuel savings and power gain using this system. The fuel usage using JTG is within 5% of petrol unlike vapour injection which is only within 20%. This makes it a very viable option. As with all technology it is more expensive than its predecessor. However it will only be from $300 to $400 more per kit depending on the vehicle. This is well made up for in the 15% benefit over vapour injection economy.

The system can run as straight gas or duel fuel. The only issue with straight gas is that there is a delay of 3 seconds before start up. JTG requires a purge of the supply and return lines before start up. This is to remove any vapour from the lines. On duel fuel systems this is set for about 30 seconds. The system during this time will run on petrol while it circulates LPG. After this time it will then switch to LPG by itself. Straight gas vehicles have this purge time set at a minimum.

The cylinder has an integrated pump and uses a return line (The pump can be accessed). The fill line in the JTG system also has a filter. This is to stop any contaminants affecting the pump. The filter can be replaced and set an interval of 50,000km.
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