intercooling the richwood manifold

[pres6]

ok, so i ahve not yet had the pleasure of holding one of the richwood manifolds yet... (anyone in DFW??) but i have been thinking alot about how to cool the air charge post blower. from looking at the amazing pics i have seen of the manifold it looks like a small heat exchanger could be mounted on the bottom side of the top plate, the air from the blower then would be forced through the cooling fins. and whilst it might not be an incredible change in temp, i think it would be significant, running it like the setup on the lightenings, where the water is cooled via the AC system and then circulated through the system.
granted if there were more room in the there would be other options.

i once ready somewhere that every 7deg drop in temp is 17hp.... i con't find it to quote it, but if thats right, it is an impressive number.
any thoughts?

 

[Lextreme II]

Richwood already have an intercooled manifold right now. Contact Richwood for updates.

 

[pres6]

so its just not on the site yet then, cool,
you know if anyone is already running one?

 

[Spinall4]

when I contacted richwood, they had this at least six months ago or more, so somebody should have one on a car by now.

 

[Lextreme II]

This is what I was talking about.



Intercooled manifold from Richwood.

 

[pres6]

that is the picture i had in my head, good deal, thanks

 

[Jake Breyck]

just a few notes. those air to water coolers work wonders, its not just a few deg drop its a magor temp change.

for example today i dynoed an mr2 with an air to water cooler, intake temps helpds at 55deg F another mr2 dynoed at the same shop a few weeks ago had and air to air cooler and intake temps where around 150deg F so thats a 200deg diffrence granted thats very extream as we where useing ice. but with a setup like the one you where talking about you could use ice too. for dyno, drag strip ect.

you wouldnt want to try to use the ac system to cool the water. it does not move anywhere near the amount of heat that a turbo or supercharger makes, and it draws power although not much...

i would suggest a small fuel cell as a water tank, a 12volt eletric water pump, and a heat exchanger plumb them from Tank -> Pump -> intercooler -> heat exchanger -> tank.

Here is a very good heat exhanger
http://emspowered.com/storefront/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=41

another thing to point out, 17hp from a 7deg temp drop is way way optamistic. by that math the mr2 with the A2W should have made 485hp more then the A2A setup

an air to water ic could prolly pick you up an extra 100 hp compaired to no intercooler at all tho if the situation was right for it.

 

[pres6]

i figured my memory was off on that number, if i can ever find the info again i will post it.
on the subject of cooling the water, i like using the evaporator canister to cool the charge only because i can still add ice if i need to, the idea is for the one i build to be a daily driver, low boost.. and i can't afford a bag of ice a day.
the other option is to use pelltier or "TE" coolers, but that would draw on the electrical, i am way far away from any actual implementation, so i still have alot of planning and buying.
BTW, Ford saw fit to use the AC to chill the water in atleast 2 of the eaton SC cars and trucks, so it must cool ok..
anyway, to each his own..
i have built a few A2W setups back when i still worked at a performance shop and we were very impressed with the function, the issue at that time again was buying a bag of ice, it dooms the car to be race only.
JCC

 

[striker]

The anmount of energy removed from the entering air exeeds the power a peltier or even a whole bunch of them can make 100dreds of times when you want 40degrees of at 600CFM so Peltier is an absolute no go unless you want to stick an extra 1uzfe in the trunk to power the generator for the peltier system.

in water to air intercooling Laminova is best and can be combined STRAIGHT with the Airconditioning system, not via the coolant in the system but also with the airco gas in the cooler itself.. would require some serious building but open up a whole new can-o-worms, rolling road ice-bags, however I doubt the temp coefficient of those sorts of gas on thsi apllication.

@jake I respect your opinion because you seem to do the research and maths before shouting something, but the IC in the link you provided would never ever hold up cooling at the power rates they give on their website. I cannot belive thats in any way close to the truth.
maybe they get towards those powerfigures but at what efficiency is the intercooler working at that moment?

the Laminova's I'm building have 4 cores, will do 70%-80% of the intake temperature at a constant coolant temp of 30degrees @ 20L-min (depends on raditor and pump offcourse) @ 892cubic meter/Hour enough for serious increase in power over stock. and best of all the presure drop will be very very low at 4.6kpa. total increase of volume over a non intercooled intake system is about 0.7Liter.

Grtz Thomas

 

[Jake Breyck]

striker, im slighty lost on your questions, but the mr2 i was talking about getting one of those heat exchangers added to its existing A2W setup, the exchanger didnt arive in time for the dyno and it wasnt completly nessacary for the dyno anyhow...

but with ice in the tank it held a constant 55deg F intake temp mesured from the ecu with the temp guage.

the car did drive to the dyno, and also back from the dyno about 30 min drive each way to the dyno it was just crusing, back from the dyno the owner made quite a few pulls, raced some ricer, raced a bike then raced our friend who was following, when we got back to his house after all this i checked the water to see how hot it was, and it was luke warm, 80-90deg by feel. by no means super hot. i didnt have a laptop hooked up at the moment so i dont have an exact air intake temp reading after all that.

So in reply to pres6's comment of track only. the mr2 worked fine on the street with out a cooler and with out ice. it could only be better with the extra cooling.

stiker sence i have direct access to one of these and it will be mounted on the car shortly i will report back to you on the cooler with first hand experance, and ill be armed with some temps for you. prolly by this time next week.

 

[Jake Breyck]

haha striker, yes i agree with you, i didnt realize there figures where so high, i agree 1500 is way optomistinc as well, i would say maybe 600-700 max and it starts having issues. so about half of what that website says.


good thing the mr2 wont be exceding half of what they quote so it should work fine for normal street applications/track applications that us normal people are working with..

good catch striker, i didnt knotice that.

 

[striker]

Hey Jake,

can you do measurements on the car when the IC in normal action? I'm not after results with Ice bags in watertanks etc etc etc, because it doesn't give a clear result on how th IC performs in real life.

airflow (or an estimate based on power presure revs etc etc)
Air-in: temp
Air-out: temp
coolant: temp
abient outside temp
presure drop.

I'm very curious about the performance of your system.

The largest laminova based system I've seen was supporting about 900hp on a hilclimb car with a twin turbo BMW m3 engine. they had mounted 12 cores in one housing to get decent temps on high rpm application.

the one in the link will rpobably struggle to get even close to what I'm building with 4 cores. unless the're actually that good as they say.

regards Thomas

 

[Jake Breyck]

i can give you, air flow, air temp after ic, coolant temp, and abient temp,

pressure drop and temp before the intercooler will be hard. as there are not sencors in those locations. sorry.

yes the point of this would be to test the system with out ice, so ofcorse there will be no ice.

this intercooler isnt a laminova tho, i belive those are those round tube cores.

the intercooler is two sperico a2w cores welded togather, off the top of my head i dont rember the core size.

 

[striker]

Jake you're right the laminovas are the tube type thingy's

can you perhaps measure the incomming air with a sensor mounted somewhere in the tubing (easy to mock-up for testing only)? this is vital to knowing the efficiency of the intercooler, I've also seen pretty good measurements made with a simple infrared thermometer (5 euro's household shop item) aimed at an aluminium hose joiner in the intake system.

grtz Thomas

edit david can you perhaps seperate our little discussion here? into different topic

 

[Zuffen]

Returning to the Richmond manifold has anyone actually used one with the intercooler in place?

What sort of temp drop is Andrew predicting?

What are they worth?

 

[pres6]

Thanks Zuffen! that is what i am also looking for, more so someone with one running on the car

 

[Jake Breyck]

I've also seen pretty good measurements made with a simple infrared thermometer

i thought of this right after my last post but i had already went to bed so i didnt feel like getting up to make the post. yes i can do this.


ya sorry to everyone for the sligly off topic, well its sorta on topic, it relates to the a2w ic inside the richwood manaifold, and my point to my posts i think the richwood intercooled manifold will work really well basised on my experance with a2w setups, im also now thinking about buying one of these manifolds.

 

[striker]

Nah the stock laminova cores will not fit the richwood manifold, the tube cores are 40cm long without the water system on them.

I allready thought of that but helas!

looking forward hearing Jake!

grtz Thomas

 

[LondonBenji]

Sorry to dig this old thread up but does anyone have any more information on this manifold?

How effective is it? What is the pricing information?

Otherwise I shall go straight to the source

 

[Jake Breyck]

I emailed richwood shortly after this thread poped up. as i would love to have one of those intercooled mainfolds.

this is the reply i got...

Hi Jake,

The picture of the intercooled manifold is for the M90, we do a top plate
for both the M112 Lightning and the SVT 122.
The manifold, top plate and cooler is,
M90 1450.00 aud ( 1330.00 usd)
M112 lightning 1450.00 aud ( 1330.00 usd)
M122 SVT 1650.00 aud ( 1520.00 usd)

Shipping is additional, delivery 7-10 days from order.

Kind Regards
Andrew

Im wondering whats a m122 and how does it differ from the m112, i was always under the impression the lightning and cobra had the same supercharger with just a little diffrent intake.