Hydraulic Supercharging

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MWP

New Member
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364
Location
Adelaide, South Australia
Hi all,

After all this discussion on the hydraulic fans, it has got me thinking about what else the hydrauilc pump/motor could be used for.

Now this may be a crazy idea... but could you use it to power a supercharger?
My guess is probably not, due to the pump/motor not being big enough to power a SC.

But after thinking about this, a hydraulic supercharger sounds like a good idea.
Type of SC wouldnt matter, cetrifugal, roots, etc.

These are the advantages i can come up with:
- Mount the SC anywhere.
- Completely controllable speed... control boost level at any RPM/load, turn off when not needed, etc.

Disadvantages:
- Cost of hydraulic gear

Thoughts?
 
no sure but probably if 1uz have 250 hp stock when boosted with suprecharger to make 350 hp it loses about 40 hp to make that boost. no sure (almost sure NOT) if stock hydraulic pump can make that... say even 20 hp. thinking 2-4 hp is all it can do. it is much too little do do something you can feel.
 
Any hydraulic system that can drive a supercharger that will draw up to 100hp (an Eaton will draw this much!) will weigh more than the 1UZ and be about as big with holding tank and coolers etc.

Sliding cone pulleys will give you infinitely variable speed and be quite compact.

Sliding cones can handle big horsepower. The Dutch car maker called DAF (they only make trucks now) did make a samll car in the 60/70's that used sliding cones for the entire transmission. It worked well.
 
Yes,

There's nothing new about CVT as it's been around in difference variations for the last 80 years.

Even ride on lawn mowers use it.
 
but some say they arent that strong, they have their advantages, but arent very useful for performance. they cant stand much HP, apparently the belts slip after so much power. a CVT transmission in a supercharger might not work so well.
 
CVT can stand any amount of power if you use enough belts.

I relly don't see much point in being able to change the boost for different revs because that is basically what happens now as the boost is lowest at idle and builds up to the maximum flow the blower can produce.
 
Zuffen said:
I relly don't see much point in being able to change the boost for different revs because that is basically what happens now as the boost is lowest at idle and builds up to the maximum flow the blower can produce.
Not if its a centrigual like a Vortech.
Plus, wouldnt you like to be able to change boost or turn off the SC at any time?
 
alfa did it in the in the mid 60's, Alfa Romeo built the GTA-SA
with twin centrifugal superchargers driven by hydraulic motors. It used an engine-driven variable displacement pump to maintain compressor speed. Using pressurized carburetors for fuel management, and water injection as a detonation suppressant, it produced 250 Hp at 7500 RPM from the 1570cc twin plug GTA engine.
http://www.autocomponenti.com/tech.htm
google will turn up more info on this
 
You guys need to pass the joint, because it sounds you all are smoking some good stuff to becoming up with these crazy ideas..

My favorite is an electric leaf blower air forced induction type setup running and powering off a huge alternator... Innovative thinking as crazy as it sounds sometimes brings about brilliance and new discoveries....I know alot of air is pushed through a jet engine? How about making a super tiny jet engine and somehow creating an airforced induction setup... I got crazy ideas.....Better yet find the most power vacume cleaner and then...............
 
If you really want to use CVT on a cyntrifugal, you could copy the CVT out of the new John Deere tractors (yep, i'm a farmer). Basically a plantery setup with the outer gear of the planetery supplemented by a hyrdaulic motor. When the supplementary motor is not turning, the planetery operates as normal. when the sup motor drives the outer of the planetery, the ratio is infiniatly variable by changing the speed of the hydraulic motor. Ony a small hydraulic motor is needed to vary the ratio.
You may be able to build something by starting with the planetery gear set out of a small automatic gearbox. THe hydraulic fan pump would probably be ideal to use in this setup. Would be a cool project if you really want a CVT blower drive.
A twin screw blower would probably give you the everythin you want anyway, without CVT.
 
hmm that John Deere CVT sounds cool. but I think you would loose the advantage of going with hydraulic system as you would also need a belt going to them.
The hydraulic variable displacement pumps seem to be a common part I looked at how one works very cool. http://home.wxs.nl/~brink494/axpp_v_e.htm
but what makse this a cool system is the turbopump can be placed anywhere that will work for the intake and all that is need it 2 oil lines one in and one out. the variable displacement pump is the like the boost controler valve but boost can be set to anything at any RPM. and the power is not wasted ar hi revs
take the belt systems the spin too fast at the hi rpms so a bypass has to open of some sort. or if it is spinning at the right speed at hi rpm there is no boost down low.(postive displacement blowers are different)
on paper it seem like a very good system almost perfect. but only 10 or so ever made there must have been somthing wrong with the setup. then again it could be the lack of control and it was never revisted after computer control came about.
 
Something wrong with the simplicity of a belt? KISS

A belt has a large parasitic draw, and the hydraulic pump will be even worse.
 
Driving the blower hydraulicly isn't practical. Losses are way to big.

John Deere uses IVT (Infinitely Variable Transmission)
Do a search and you should find a good description of how it works.
Using a belt drive in conjunction with a IVT transmission could allow a cyntrifugal supercharger to perform more efficiently across a broader RPM range. Would be a cool project for someone looking for a challenge. The IVT dosen't need to be hydraulically supplemented, it could be varied with an electric motor instead.
 

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http://www.deere.com/en_AU/equipment/ag/tractors/8030_series/transmission.html
this is only an sales brochure on it.
It is starting to become common on tractors now. Absolutely seamless continuasly variable ratios. You could probably remove three quarters of the components in that tractor transmission to actualy see the IVT only. Very few moving parts.

Other companies call it CVT
http://www.agco.com.au/agco/Fendt/FendtEAPAC/Tractors/VarioRange/Vario900Features/vario400feat1.htm

http://www.bonhillmarketing.co.uk/cvt.htm

I'm sure with some more searching you could find better articles
 
there is no possible way it can be infinitely variable. it doesnt matter what its called, its not infinitely variable. it may be continuous, but it still has a limits to the gear ratios it can use. they are cool transmissions though.

EDIT: yup, it even says. "...from 50 m/h to 42 km/h. the IVT name is just a gimic. but what i would give to know how that thing works....
 

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"Losses are way to big."
I have to ask why do you think losses are so great?
if this just a guess or based on something.
the losses would be friction in the pump and a very very tiny bit in the tubes.
leaking in the pump would that be loss? or or just made up by changeing the displacement as the pump wears. Cost I can see. as the variable displacement pumps cost a lot. but they are also way to big I think as they are used to drive monster tucks and such.
 


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