Hp Gains With Re-directed Air Conditioner?

[jibby]

You guys may laugh and think I am crazy on this one but I was thinking of a cost effective way to make some horsepower from the cars resources and here is what I came up with, check this:

For those of you that have airconditioning if you notice that when you turn your A/C on full blast you get a nice push of freezing air out of the 4 seperate air vents from your dash. I was thinking has anyone thought of a flap that can open and close and re-direct the cold air flow from the air conditioner/compressor/fan and directly channel it thru one single large duct leading directly into the engines intake system? This is just raw thinking- Ok so now you have super cold air producing horsepower in combination with a very mild form of forced air induction, (with the electric fan). I am sure all of you have heard of the electric fan supercharging crap for little hp gains. Do you guys see what I am getting at here? I also understand the a/c takes power to run but could the positives out weigh the negatives? I call this theory of mine "Cold Air Induction".. Ha Ha....

So in conclusion you run your a/c normally, then when racing you simply click the vent switch and run the a/c directly into the engines intake. "Cold Air Induction" do you think just maybe you could gain hp off the A/C compressor and electric fan? What do you guys think of this crazy and probably stupid idea of mine?...

Oh, and I have not been drinking or doing drugs last time I checked. I just have a creative imagination at times. I hope you guys get a good laugh out of this atleast if it is infact a worthless idea...

 

[Peewee]

My thoughts on this, is that if it worked, you will have invented perpetual motion.

 

[MWP]

Oh, and I am not drunk or on drugs I just have a creative imagination at times.

Sure you are not on drugs?

The AC will use a lot more engine power than the cold air into the engine will create.
IE, youll loose power overall, not gain some.

 

[jibby]

MVP- No I am not on drugs but maybe I should be to get my thinking straight.... Just have some crazy ideas....and I guess I am looking for either laughs or results....

Peewee- I don't know if you can call this idea perpetual motion because it would consume freon, but I see what you are saying. I always thought of perpetual motion as being something more like this for example: Large efficient battery that puts out power to an extremely well disigned gearing system which enables a large well designed alternator to turn fast enough to generate enough power to maybe power up a light bulb and then recylcle the remaining energy back to recharge the battery and this entire setup just runs constantly...(like a big electrical loop which constantly runs) that is perpetual? No?

 

[Peewee]

I've always thought perpetual motion was something that puts out more power than it uses.

ie, it can be used to power itself and have some left over.

 

[Anaema]

i thought about a concept similar to that for FI engines.

 

[jibby]

After seeing these fancy intakes threads and the electric leaf blower thread that produced 30hp on a Honda and also how my car always seems to run much stronger at night when the air is cold in comparison to on a hot day got me wondering what if.... In addition you always read or hear about the cold air box air intakes.....

 

[simmo9]

perpetual motion puts out the same power as it uses. a closed loop, but the catch is it does not consume fuel external from the system. first step is to invent frictionless materials....

 

[Anaema]

there is no such thing as a firctionless material. friction is a law of the universe, and cant be bypassed. where two different substances rub, friction is created. you can reduce fristion, but not get rid of it.

theoretically, the system could work if you put a larger pulley on the compressor. but you would really have to try it out to see if it worked. a better way to make HP cheaply is to find a way to atomize the fuel better. if you really wanted to try this idea, then you would need a dedicated redesign of your AC system, a design that use smaller parts so you can mount the system without taking up too much space and making unecessary sharp bends in the intake system(sharp bends are bad fo HP).

 

[Nick M]

I've always thought perpetual motion was something that puts out more power than it uses.

ie, it can be used to power itself and have some left over.
__________________

Yes, it is called supercharging. Your air charge is colder, however the CFM of a squirl cage is way less than a crank driven, gear increased impeller.

Perpetual motion does not exist, as negative entropy does not exist. The laws of thermodynamics say so.

http://physics.about.com/cs/thermodynamics/g/thermodynamics.htm

 

[Zuffen]

Anaema,

As no one has invented a fricionless material, and probably never will, perpetual motion is not going to happen.

 

[jibby]

That is correct perpetual motion does not exist... I would venture to say this atleast, and that is I am truely amazed at the advancements of technology in let's say the last 10 to 20 years.. Just look at the cars, computers and electronic gadgets that come out better and better each year. Heck we even have Hybrids now and who would have thought of that 20 years ago. I have frequently visited the California Science Center located on the Campus of USC over the years and I see the advancements in science being made as well. With all that being said and with natural forces such as gravity, magnetism, etc.. at our disposals I would not rule out the possibilities of anything... Check back in another 20 years and see the kind of crap that will be invented and I bet you will be astonishing and amazing.....just something to think about.

 

[cowboy bebop]

You've got the right principle, but there's a fatal flaw. The A/C clutch disenges at full throttle above a certain RPM. If you want cooler charge air, inject methanol and it will take your charge air temps to near freezing. Or alternatively, inject propane which come out at -60 F. You'll be able to run more boost along, you'll be adding octane, and your charge air will be ice cold.

Vua-la...

Eric

 

[jibby]

That is a fatal flaw that I did not consider about the A/C disengaging...I did not know the A/C compressor does that...wow that does makes sense.

The only problem with using methanol, propane, nos, etc...is that those fueling agents are consumable at a fast rate where as I was thinking of something that is somewhat renewalbe and can be used over and over again like freon in the A/C. Getting or producing cold air for long periods of time without having to replace or re-fuel often... Anyway, just throwing darts at a board...

 

[cowboy bebop]

It's along the right ideas. : )

Eric

 

[Anaema]

Anaema,

As no one has invented a fricionless material, and probably never will, perpetual motion is not going to happen.

thats my point.


you could try a nitrous intercooler kit. just full it with CO2, although it isnt permanent, its probly cheaper than nitrous or Methanol.

 

[340i]

i discussed this with someone once and they thaught the air from the air conditioner would create condensation in the intake system and this would not be good for the motor.
maybe if you had it hooked up to cool an intercooler on a forced induction setup some gains could be had. you'd also have a new type - an air/air con intercooler.

 

[Spinall4]

I've seen setups like this done before with the turbo buick crowd. Doesn't work worth a ****. If it did, OEM would be all over it.

If you want a cheap way to lower Intake temps on a boosted motor, do an alchy/water injection setup. Pure methanol is expensive, but you can use the cheap blue washer fluid for about 1$/bottle. Its 49.99% methanol, 49.99% distilled water, and .02% blue dye.

For even cheaper with out as good of gains, try distilled water. about 60 to 70 cents a gallon from walmart.

I have an aquamist setup waiting in the grage to go on the lexus as soon as I can afford boost. Took it off the Typhoon, which it worked very well on.

 

[Toysrme]

^ Ditto.
If you want lower temps, water injection. Don't use methyl anything. Use ethyl.

jibby, for N/A, or N/A + n20, all you need is a windshield washer pump, something to make a tank out of (gallon milk jug), some thing to use as a line, some T-bar hose clamps off ebay, and a nozzle. Be it an atomizer from Lowes/Home Depot, or something like a 100% cleaned out cold-start injector.
If you use a CSI, you need a switch (to trigger whatever), and a relay.
If you use just a nozzle you'll want a switch, relay & a one-way valve.

All up... Should cost $5-20 to make a single stage water injection.
Buy a gallon of Ethyl alcohol & mix it about 4-5W:1EA.


It'll clean your combustion chamber out a boatloat, but without the n2o you won't see much benifit.
You *could* get a piggyback & lean it out on the highway. Atleast until you ran out of water. Doing that is many, many times more effective under boost. Where you can raise the boost to make up for lost power.

 

[Spinall4]

While I think you can build a cheap water injection setup, there are some things you should not cheap out on.

1. The pump. A cheap pump will give you nothing buy problems. When your trying to run lots of boost, lots of meth, and high PSI from the pump a cheap one will give you problems. Low pressure will give you problems atomising the water, and when you're running 30psi of boost, the shitty washer pumps will barely be able to dribble into your intake manifold. You don't have to buy aquamist, but get a nice self priming, hi pressure (150psi plus) jabsco or something.

2. The nozzles. Shell out the extra few dollars for nice aquamist jets. They're worth every cent.

3. The check valve. Shell out the money for a good one, don't buy one at petsmart.

If your using this to run extra boost, you don't wan't to wank around with crappy parts. If your pump fails while you're running 30psi on 10.5:1 compression with pump gas, you're gonna be dinning on piston soup.