electric flex-a-lite cooling fan for SC400 HP gains

[jibbby]

A few people are inquiring on my electric fan swap, so I thought I would drag up this old thread to help them out....Hope this helps....


The fans and setup is still working like a champ to date after this dual electric fan swap...No problems to report...

 

[stevechumo]

John,

I've almost finished the fan swap. However, I don't know which wire you're using for the ignition/power source to your fan. So could you show which wire you're using as the power source? I already numbered all the wires.

 

[stevechumo]

This is what I've done so far on the fan swap. The stainless steel block for the pump and the 4" pulley. I'm still using the stock drive belt although the stock pulley is 5". I hope it still has enough grip, otherwise, I'll find a 1" shorter belt than the stock one. I can pretty much put every stock parts back into working later. Honestly, I don't know why I should keep the stock parts like this because I don't think I'll put them back anyway. I guess that's just my habit when working on cars.

 

[jibbby]

John,

I've almost finished the fan swap. However, I don't know which wire you're using for the ignition/power source to your fan. So could you show which wire you're using as the power source? I already numbered all the wires.

Ok, In your picture the ignition wire source would be wire #1 on the far upper left..You will find it to be the thickest of all the wires and you won't burn the fuse when the fans are connected..

Good job Steve on the plate idler pulley...Did you have that plate specially made, I would think so? Nice creative thinking.....I just used one of the threaded pump holes and maybe a 3" idler pulley as you well know...The only difference is you used your same sized stock serp belt and not have to go out and buy one to fit the new setup. Outstanding!!!.....How did you get that plate? Looks better too....

 

[stevechumo]

Thanks, John. I'll continue this wiring next Saturday. I'm so busy so I can only do a little at a time. Everything is already in place, including attaching all the wires together so maybe 1 hour more will be finished.

For that plate, it took me hours to make it. First, I had to used a 1/4" aluminum as the plate. However, it's thick so it didn't have enough clearance between the pulley and the 4 bolts to hold the plate (the stock pump has 5 bolts). I then had to change to a 2 mm stainless steel plate and I now have 2 mm of clearance. I only have a slow drill press so it took me hours to drill the stainless steel plate, perhaps the slowing is from the bad drill bits.

 

[xirforever]

As soon as my new fan and fan controller arrive i will be doing the same thing, thanks for the posts jibby and stevechumo, much appreciated! ill try and post mine up too when im done.

 

[xirforever]

Im making what stevechumo made right now, then off of that im going to have one CNC made . Anyway i was thinking...

Would it be beneficial to route the tranny cooler lines away from the radiator (like stock) to the now free cooler that the hydrolic fan used?

 

[stevechumo]

....Would it be beneficial to route the tranny cooler lines away from the radiator (like stock) to the now free cooler that the hydrolic fan used?

It's hard to say because no one has tried it. Let's give it a try and see. Normally, an aftermarket tranny cooler is larger than the pump cooler. I also believe the tranny with more and larger gears generate a lot more heat than the spinning pump with just a few small vanes in it. I'm not an expert about the tranny so I can't say. There're a lot of professional articles about the structure and operation of the tranny. But if you want a safe investment, then a large aftermarket tranny cooler is a good bet.

 

[jibbby]

The hydro pump spins at different speeds constantly according to the ECU temp reads...It's useless in my opinion and should be ditched..You get leaks, overheating, etc...Very tempremental...

Anyway, good luck fellas, hope it all works out for the both of you...

 

[xirforever]

Steve, good points. I havent even actually gotten a good look at the thing to see how big it is, i just figured it might work better as it is by itself, and not having to be the temperature as the engine coolant, (which is very hot, we all know). It would be interesting if i could get some temperature reads from both radiator and pump cooler and see what the difference in temp was.

Jibby, I dont understand what your trying to say by stating what the pump does and by saying it overheats? Your transmission also spins at consistantly different speeds and i dont know of anyone that has had their fan system overheat. I also do not see how it is tempermental, the reason i like it is because it is made by toyota, and i can trust it. I dont think i have ever heard of anyone having any kind of problem with the system leeking, and especially not from a piece of metal like the cooler.

 

[jibbby]

You are planning re-route the Fan fluid oil cooler to cool the actual tranny fluid instead, right? As an extra Tranny cooler...When you re-route the hydro-pump pressure fan lines to re-circulate back to the pump the hydro-pump pressure in the lines will be much different, it may or may not work.....The hydro pump overheated on me but and I removed just the pump vanes and left floating fluid in the lines....I just think it is very tempremental and offering you this warning...

Give it a go anyway it might just work and let us know what happens....Tranny coolers are much bigger like Steve had said, but I am sure there would be benifets even with that smaller stock by-passed cooler...Try it..

 

[xirforever]

Just to be extra clear.... the hydrolic pump will not be involved with the tranny cooler idea whatsoever... It will just come out of tranny, go through lines to the fluid cooler in the bumper, then back.

Anyway, i finished up today, i decided to weld a nut onto my plate then put a bolt to it. I ran into one problem at the end though, i didnt weld my nut on straight! arggg..... when i first welded it, i tacked one side, then the other, just like you are supposed to in order to prevent heat distortion. Well, when i was half way around the nut, i noticed that my second tack weld didnt penetrate the sheet metal at all, i didnt think anything of it at the time.... i was wrong...

Mine looks a lot like yours steve! Now that i now the specs for where i want the pulley in reference to the plate, distance and up and down, back and forth, im toying with the idea of making myself a CNC aluminum one with countersunk screws and all... would anybody be interested in this when i make mine? It will be non profit, ill do it as a favor.




Right now it is cold enough outside i dont need any cooling fans, stays below half way mark no matter how i drive. My fan and fan controller should arrive tomorrrow, ill post up again when install is done. Im pretty excited about the SPAL fan controller, i hope its as good in practice as it is on paper.

 

[cribbj]

Put me down for one; I'm always interested in specialty bits that are fabricated professionally.

Although I definitely prefer a billet aluminum piece, I wonder if it'll be strong enough with the side loading that idler has?

 

[jibbby]

Xir - I got you, I am a little slow....Ok you are going to use the stock tranny pressure to circulate thru the Fan oil cooler....No assistance from the hydro fan...I am wondering is there enough line pressure to pull the tranny fluid thru that extra little cooler..That is a long way to travel, if it works I will do the same.....Let us know and what lines you created to attach to the fan oil cooler......GOod luck I hope it works...

 

[Damien]

You should do a dyno run with the hydraulic fan and another with the electric fans to see iff you pick up any power at the wheels and how much.

An electric fan will never move as much air as the stock fan so it might not be suitable for those living in warmer climates. Just a thought.

 

[jibbby]

Damien, the hydraulic fan dyno before and after would not yeild true results as the hydro pump runs at different speeds constantly as the engine is operating and cooling accordingly...So it will always be very difficult to see exactly what gains you can pick up...

The fans work fine on the hottest of days with the A/C on full blast...Atleast my Dual electric fans do for me...Warmer climate or not...

Note - When you delete the hydro-pump and the pump sensors that operate the hydropump, it will automatically lower your engines operating temp some...Instead of running at 1/2 temp constantly you will now be running at a little over 1/4 temp constantly...The ECU will then go into warm up mode and run the car slightly rich...You will not pass smog...The car will run more responsive because of the rich fuel mix...You will need an ECU piggy back to lean out the fuel mix if your interested...It took me time to figure that all out...

 

[stevechumo]

I ran the car today, it's just perfect. I'm using 1 fixed fan switch and 1 adjustable fan switch. Therefore, 1 fan will be on at a fixed temp. and the other is adjustable. I accidentally connected the polarity of the fans so they push instead of pull. I'll change the polarity maybe tomorrow. When they push, they make the air noisy when the air is backed up. The temperature now is 1 mm below the stock fan's temp. so I'm pretty happy with it, and I can let the 2nd fan coming on later at any temp. as I want. There's no oil or check-engine light coming up so far.

Xirforever,
The thin aluminum plate won't be able to hold the pulley. I used a thick 1/4" aluminum plate but there's no clearance between the screws and the belt. That's why I moved on to the thin stainless steel for stronger hold. I had thought about welding a nut exactly like you did, but I prefer to have the screws on both sides for better tightness. However, I had to position the flat screw end inside the pump perfectly, otherwise, it won't fit in there. But you did a very good job!!!

I don't think there'll be any hp gain at all with the electric fans. When the hydraulic pump was still there, I could turn the pump pulley easily with my finger and make the fan spin. The pump is so light. This hp gain belief is just from the fan manufacturers who use it for their marketing purposes.

 

[Damien]

You should still be able to dyno it and get a comparable result so long as the engine is at operating temp and the fans are running. If your engine isn't getting to full temp you may just have a faulty thermostat.

I personally wouldn't remove a perfectly good hydraulic fan setup to install electric fans as I really can't see what the benefits are. Fair enough if the hydraulic system bites the dust, but that's just me

 

[xirforever]

Damien, i really wish i had the time an money to do a before and after dyno test, unfortunately i do not .

Stevechumo, your exactly right! Its gonna be close, i decided i would make the plate out of 4 mm T6 or T7 aluminum, then increase the thickness to 8mm or so right inside the outer edges of the pulley, so it has more strength where it needs it, in the middle. In oder for me to be able to even get the 4mm for the outside where some of the screws are, the screws will all be countersunk, so flush with the plate, or else they would not clear, like you mentioned. I had thought about doing it like you did in regards to the bolt, but i mistakingly came home with the largest bolt i could buy to fit in the pulley, then when i went to do it like you did it didnt exactly fit... lol. So i just said, hell, ill weld the nut on the other side, and blah blah. I just made sure i welded the hell of it. Thanks though, i was inspired by you!

Anyway, what do you think of my idea for the aluminum plate? I went by the machine shop to see if they could get me some quotes, but they had 100% no time to talk to me apparently and i should come in on monday. Also, what is the thermostat temp activation?

 

[stevechumo]

...I personally wouldn't remove a perfectly good hydraulic fan setup to install electric fans as I really can't see what the benefits are. Fair enough if the hydraulic system bites the dust, but that's just me

That's true. My plan is to put a turbo right where the hydraulic fan is. That's why I removed it. I have so much room for the turbo now.

...didnt exactly fit... lol. So i just said, hell, ill weld the nut on the other side, and blah blah. I just made sure i welded the hell of it. Thanks though, i was inspired by you!

Anyway, what do you think of my idea for the aluminum plate? I went by the machine shop to see if they could get me some quotes, but they had 100% no time to talk to me apparently and i should come in on monday. Also, what is the thermostat temp activation?

If you really want to weld the nut on the plate outside of the pump, you may do like me. After you have tightened the screw that protrudes through the plate with the nut on the other side, then you might weld the outside nut to the plate. Use the big washers so the screw will be straight. You might weld 2 nuts for stronger strength. And then, you might remove the inside screw. This way, you'll be able to position the nuts at any angle that you want. It's because the screw that holds the pulley won't interfere with the pump.

The aluminum plate is fine, but it'll have to be thick. so why waste your $$ and time on the machine shop? The pulley covers most of the plate so it's still good for show. :shock:

The thermostat temp activation? Did you mean the fan switch activation? My 1st fan switch starts at 180 degree and turns off at 170 degree, or vice versa. The 2nd switch is adjustable so I'm not sure because I didn't put any temperature gauge there. I just let it on after the 1st switch turns on for about 5 minutes. And actually, it doesn't matter much as long as the temp gauge inside the instrument cluster shows it's very close to the stock position.