electric flex-a-lite cooling fan for SC400 HP gains

[jibby]

Hey, I am in the process of installing a flex-a-lite electric fan for my sc400, I figured everything out except the best way to plug or re-rout the two oil hoses leading into the stock fan. I can either plug the two lines at or near the block or connect the two hose lines together with a union. Either way is no problem, but I am wondering which way is the best? Any suggestions? It appears not many have tried this conversion yet so I am eager to finish and test and find out the true results, just have this one issue.

-Info for readers about the Flex-a-lite fan -He

It seems to me be an excellent choice, appears to be well made, reliable, and fairly easy to install with clear instructions. Has its own temperature stick and two wires ground and positive that is it. I feel confident that the fan system will not fail and overheat the car. The twin fan system believe it or not is only two inches thick and mounts right up to the radiator, with a built in scrowd, all one peice. The advantages on the box read - 10-20hp expected gains, more efficent then the stock oil driven fan for cooling. Better fuel efficiency, etc.. What it doesn't mention with this electric fan change you will also free up a lot of room for a future airforced induction application if desired. :veryhappy

partswarehouse.com is where I bought it and the price was $350 ouch!

 

[Lextreme II]

Got any pics..... sounds nice...

 

[xirforever]

i know a few members on CL have done it. I doubt youll gain any horsepower really as the motor does not power this fan directly, the coolant does. But it will cool much better i think and will free up room in that engine bay for a cleaner looking one. I plan on doing it in the future also.

Good luck,
Nick

 

[Zuffen]

The hydraulic pump is driven directly off the serprntine belt so the motor does directly power the pump.

The pump will only draw a fraction of a horsepower when it's not being called upon to drive the fan motor.

There is an ECU that controls the operation of the solenoid that activates the fan motor (and hence the fan). This solenoid will only open when the operating temp gets high enough to demand the fan be run.

All in all unless you need the room the hydraulic fan is far superior to any electric fan. As I once read on ALSC "make sure no small children are in front of your car when the fan turns on. They could be sucked in" The hydraulic fan shifts an enormous amount of air.

 

[jibby]

Well I do have several close up pictures but I have never posted a picture on these forums and honestly do not know how. I could not figure it out. If someone can PM on how to post pictures I will post some great pictures and be very thankful.

To xirforever- You said you know people who have used the electric fans and dumped the oil driven stock fan and really no gains were made? Did I waste $350? I do not think this company selling the flex-a-lite fans would straight out lie that much on their claims, it is a big company. Atleast I hope not. This all reads clearly on the box and on their website, this one I have is designed for the 1992 sc400. I was also told the fan change would be like the difference between running your a/c and not as far as power gains are concerned. I guess I will soon find out.

To Zuffen are you talking about the early model sc400's? I just see to oil line hoses connection to the stock fan. I do not know the design of this system that is why I am asking about the best and most effecient way to deal with disabling the current oil driven system. Is their an independent motor on the serp belt that drives a pump? I did not see it. I can not find any posts on the design. I would love to find out more about it, the instructions in the flex fan does not go into detail on how to effeciently disable the stock system? Any advise would be appreciated.

 

[Zuffen]

Jibby,

The hydraulic pump is located within the black pulley above and to the right of the crank pulley.

Below this and to the right again (between the air co comp and the idler pulley) you will see a fitting about 11/2" across and 3" long with wires connected to it sticking out. This is the control solenoid for the oil flow.

There's an ECU under the dash that takes information from the main ECU and uses it to control the solenoid. When the solenoid opens a small hydraulic motor buried within the cooling fan makes the fan run. It's quite complex but highly efficient.

Flex-olite's claims are probably correct but only when the standard fan is running full speed. They will also overlook the need to generate the power (via the alternator) to drive the fans. They probably draw 45 amps or so which is serious power.

The only reason I would replace the stock system is to make room for other stuff.

 

[jibby]

Thanks Lambo and Zuffin, I appreciate the input. From what I have read so far the two oil lines hoses going into the hydraulic fan need to be bridged and not pluged for smoothe non restrictive flow, and some small hp's should free up because the pump will work much easier with the bridged hoses rather than work hard to pump that hydraulic stock system. To free up the most hp the main pump needs to be disabled but unfortunately that same pump runs the power steering so I do not think that will happen. As far as the amps go, the box says the dual electric fan draws 19.5 amps, which is not that bad. I sure wish I could disable that main pump, oh well but got to have power steering, after all it is a lexus. See ya-

 

[Lambo]

Hi jibby, have a carefull read of the zip file pdf's , there are diagrams in there showing the fan system,the fan pump and the power steer are completely separate systems they are in no way connected together the fan pump has its own reserve tank etc.

Regards
Lambo

 

[Zuffen]

Jibby,

You can dismantle the pump and remove the vanes from it.

Block the inlet and outlet but leave oil in it to lube the bearings.

This way it won't draw any more power than a normal idler but save having to source an LS400 version.

It also allows you to remove about 15lb of plumbing, tank, oilcooler etc. Not to mention the litre or so of oil.

 

[xirforever]

The hydraulic pump is driven directly off the serprntine belt so the motor does directly power the pump.

I stand corrected

But jibby i dont think they are lying, just exagerating. I dont want to discourage you from this, it will clean up your engine bay and i do like that, im just saying dont expect huge HP gains from this fan delete mod.

When i put my zirgo 16" single fan on my LS, that thing sucked soooo much better than the stock fan system, so i still think dual fans will cool better than the stock system. That is i guess if flex-a-light makes just as good of fans as zirgo.

 

[jibby]

Lambo- I did look at the zip carefully and it looks as if your right their is no mention of the power steering being in connection with the hydraulic oil pump. I had sent this question to SKperformance and I got the reply that the fan pump powers the power steering as well. If it is independent like the diagram shows the pump can be removed completely and that would be the best way to free up hp rather than bridging the two oil lines and just creating a circular free flow of oil. What do you think? Thanks again for the diagram.

Zuffen- If you have done this transplant already you have the answers, and I hear what you are saying and are you sure what you are saying is fact on the sc400 1992? Can the pump really be removed like you are saying? Do you think it is worth the time and effort to do so? Do you think it will free up more horsey's removing the pump intirely rather then shortening and bridging the two lead and return oil lines?

xirforever- I figure Flex-a-lite could be exaggerating too, but the fan I tell you is well made, I have seen a few and this is the best yet, 19.5amps, 2 inches thick, built in shroud, simple mounting, self thermo stick, two lead wires, independant of the ecu and any other crap, and claims to be way more efficient then the stock for cooling. That sounds good to me. I think the 10-20hp gains might be achieved by removing the hydraulic pump by guessing, but if the pump works effortlessly with just the two shortened bridged oil lines there could be some gains anyway. I just don't know how hard the engine really works to power that hydo pump when at full operation with the stock fan? Lots of ?'s

 

[Zuffen]

Jibby,

I haven't removed the oil pump but my spare engine has one and I've studied it closely.

The difference between taking the vanes out of the pump and leaving them in will be minor. The down side of running it with hoses in a loop is the possibilty of an oil leak.

Quite a few people have stripped the vanes out. Do a search as there are a few threads on it.

By the way I wasn't far out at the wans drawing 45amps. Looks like 39 is the stated figure. They probably draw 60 on start up.

 

[TundraEddie]

Would be these be the Flexalite dual fans?

It's less than $250 from jegs.com Dual 12" fans,adjustable thermostat,15-1/2''x26-1/4''x 2-5/8'' mounting surface area.

 

[jibby]

That is it! I am still trying to figure out how to post pictures on this forum, coming up short. Anyway, yes that is it, however I paid a little more than $250 at autopartswarehouse.com.

Well first off I want to say you guys have been a big help, I will go ahead and shorten and loop the lines. With a good union and stong clamps there should be no leaks or concerns. Thanks and the final specs on the box read as follows-

Flex-a-lite 210/220/230/240 pusher (low profile Electric engine-Cooling Fan)

-Frees up horsepower 10-20hp
-Improves gas mileage
-Extends water pump life
-Quieter operation
-Quieter than a belt fan
-Faster warm-up

Then says-

Blade Diameter 2x12"
Fan Dimensions 26 1/4 x 15 1/2 x 2 5/8"
Flow 2500cfm
Amp draw 19.5
Fan RPM @13.5vdc 2000
Number of blades 2 x 10
Fan blade angle 10/21
Adj. Thermostate 210/230: yes 220/240: no

Comes in colores, red, blue, yellow and I got the black one.

That's about more information then you probably want to know but that is it. Oh and plus a one year warranty. It's going in my SC, and I will let you know if there is a difference in anything once installed. See ya-

 

[cribbj]

T.E. - many people have tried these fans on their high HP Supras, then take them off because their performance is subpar compared to the OEM, and the engines actually run hotter. You can usually find 1-2 sets of these for sale on SF.

I believe the primary reason these don't work well is because their shroud/plenum is such a low profile, one size fits all design which places the fans too close to the radiator core. This causes the fans to draw lots of air through an area of the core not much larger than their footprint, and very little through the rest of the core.

I put a single 16" SPAL electric fan in my OEM Supra plenum and had no overheating issues this last summer in Houston.

I really think a deep plenum is the key to good cooling, not just the CFM figure for the fans themselves.

John

 

[jibby]

cribby- How can it draw in an area the size of a footprint with a dual fans? Maybe 2 footprints, however, I called the company and asked them about what you had stated, and they said that it is not true with the flex fans because of the multiple number and length of the blades in each fan, and have been tested rigorously. Are you sure you are talking about the dual flex and not some other brand? The company claimed they thoughly tested before manfacturing, and claims it cooled the car better then stock. Perhahs, in the Supra's your talking about the fans were installed wrong or they simply weren't designed for the supra, I don't know?

I was considering returning the item after that last post, but after speaking with a rep for flex, they conviced me that it is not true. Thinking on my own, if what you say is true would that theory only apply when the car is at a stand still and running? Keep in mind this dual flex I am talking about is for an earlier model sc, and not a newer model Supra, perhaps the OEM Supra cooling is superior, I am not familiar with the OEM, is that electric, clutch or an hydraulic fan? The change I am doing is for a hydraulic system replacement. Anyway, I sure hope it will work out just fine on my 4.0l sc, and I will soon find out. Now I am imaging driving to Las Vegas from LA with a fine girl in the car and the car starts to over heat in Death Valley in slight traffic, it's 110 degrees no A/C, she starts complaining, no help in sight, I think I would be ruined!!!!!, Say it ain't so!!!!!!!. Oh well she will have to suck it up kick off the high heels and help me push the sc to Vegas! He He

 

[Zuffen]

The blade shape of those fans harks back to thermo fans of the 70's. Yes they had them back then.

Most thermo fans you see in Australia have swept blades (like a nuclear submerine) because they shift more air and are quieter.

I use a twin 10" fan assembly off an Austrlian Ford with a moulded shroud.

I figure if Ford use them on their 5.4litre V8 they will work for me. They cost me $300 (US$220.00) complete across the counter at the Ford dealer without any discount.

It could be worth looking in your local Ford dealer as they may use something similar on a US Ford.

 

[jibby]

Rod, these are 12" each- dual fans and this is for a 4.0l V8 and not the big trinton 5.4L Ford. So this fan must do the job and do it well on a little old sc, no? Anyway, the real way to find out if anything works is to try it first hand, so I will soon find out very soon, and report back with the results if any. I paid too much for this fan I know that for sure, I am slightly disturbed, so I am staying optomistic after all it is only a fan..

The S&S headers that I have been waiting for over a month and still waiting to receive should be a little more challenging then this little fan. A little mod here a little mod there, before you know it the car is pulling pretty well. Need More power Scooty!!!!!

 

[jibby]

Figuring out how to post pictures, should show the complete fan assembly picture.

 

[turboandrew]

Yup, those are the fans a lot have tried on the Supras. Literally dozens or more supras have tried them and gone back. I am not saying it wont work for you. Most of the Supras also have a front mount intercooler that makes cooling very challenging. If you do not have a front mount intercooler, then maybe you will be fine. But don't expect any actual HP gain (ok maybe 1-2HP). Any gain from not turning the hydraulic pump is probably lost by driving the alternator more. Any engery conversion process (say from mechanical to electric, then electric back to mechanical) is not that efficient. I would dare say the process of going from rotational to hydraulic pressure back to rotational would be more efficient than rotational -> electric -> rotaional --but that is honestly an unimformed guess on my part. (I am assuming the stock solution can turn on/off the fan when appropriate)

Bottom line, if they cool OK, and they clean up the engine bay, be happy with them!