Budget Turbo Selection

[Lextreme II]

Hey Gang,

I have been doing my budget and I am short of $$. Instead of the GT35Rs I re-routing the idea of ball bearing turbos. I will be mounting the two turbos where the AC and Alternator location. So space is very important especially the turbine size. I would like to stay with T3 turbine and decent size compressor. Secondly I would like to have nice low end power to mid range. This car might see drag strip once a year and perhaps couple of dynos. Otherwise, it will be drive about 2-3 days a weeks. So basically its a street car. So aim for 1000 rwhp is not too practical at this point. Therefore I have couple of options:

Option # 1:
COMPRESSOR SPECS:T04S housing
flow: 61 lbs/min 781cfm
.70 A/R housing
60 TRIM wheel
TURBINE SPECS:T3
.82 A/R housing
HIGH FLOW 76 TRIM stg3 wheel
oil lubricated centersection.
COMES STANDARD WITH 360 DEGREE THRUST BEARING!!
supportable of 600 whp!

Option # 2:
COMPRESSOR SPECS:T04S housing
flow: 61 lbs/min 781cfm
.70 A/R housing
60 TRIM wheel
TURBINE SPECS:T3
.63 A/R housing
HIGH FLOW 76 TRIM stg 3 wheel
oil lubricated centersection.
for use with external wastegate.
COMES STANDARD WITH 360 DEGREE THRUST BEARING!!!
supportable of 575 whp!

Option # 3:
COMPRESSOR SPECS:T04S
flow: 61 lbs/min 781cfm
.70 A/R housing
60-1 TRIM wheel
TURBINE SPECS:T3
.48 A/R housing
HIGH FLOW 76 TRIM stg 3 wheel
oil lubricated centersection.
COMES STANDARD WITH 360 DEGREE THRUST BEARING!!
supportable of 525 whp!

Option # 4:
COMPRESSOR SPECS:
flow: 53 lbs/min 678cfm
.60 A/R HOUSING
60 TRIM WHEEL
TURBINE SPECS:
.82 A/R HOUSING
STAGE 3 WHEEL
oil lubricated centersection
supportable of 525 whp!

Option # 5:
COMPRESSOR SPECS:
flow: 53 lbs/min 678cfm
.60 A/R HOUSING
60 TRIM WHEEL
TURBINE SPECS:
.63 A/R HOUSING
STAGE 3 WHEEL
oil lubricated centersection.
supportable of 500 whp!

Option # 6:
COMPRESSOR SPECS:
flow: 53 lbs/min 678cfm
.60 A/R HOUSING
60 TRIM WHEEL
TURBINE SPECS:
.63 A/R HOUSING
STAGE 3 WHEEL
oil lubricated centersection.
supportable of 475 whp!

Option # 7:
COMPRESSOR SPECS:
flow: 46 lbs/min 588cfm
50 TRIM WHEEL
TURBINE SPECS:
.63 A/R HOUSING
STAGE 3 WHEEL
oil lubricated centersection.
supportable of 450whp!

Option # 8:
COMPRESSOR SPECS:
flow: 50 lbs/min 640cfm
.60 A/R HOUSING
57 TRIM WHEEL
TURBINE SPECS:
.48 A/R HOUSING
STAGE 3 WHEEL
supportable of 400 whp!

Option # 9:
COMPRESSOR SPECS:
flow: 46lbs/min 588cfm
50 TRIM WHEEL
TURBINE SPECS:
.48 A/R HOUSING
STAGE 3 WHEEL
oil lubricated centersection.
supportable of 400 whp!

So give me your option. I am aiming for about 900-1000 rwhp max and daily at around 600 rwhp. The above rwhp is for one turbo, but this application is for two turbos. The above turbos is for this 4.7 Liter 1uzfe.

 

[pops]

Choosing Turbos

Hello ! and I applaud you for your project first off; then I would suggest you choose a turbo that would be considered a substantial upgrade for a four cylinder project. Then when you eventually move up the boost, there will be a market for your used turbos. Don't Kill the car with a pair of big turbos and take the street fun out of the car. Maintain a goal that it will be faster than any affordable production car on the street. Then when you do go to the track and get spanked by someone, see if they put it on a trailer or a tow truck. If they drive it home they have a big ongoing budget to contend with. I hope you enjoy the finished project and will keep us posted.
pops

 

[Toysrme]

I would buy a pair of T3 63 / T04S 60-1's. The rest f the turbo's are going to be stretching more to get to that amount of power. You'll also retain a descently good low end.
If you want, you can always go back later & swap the .63 turbine housings for the harder to find 84's & trade low for high - if the turbo's are choking.

Just remember that there are two types of basic t3/t4 hybrids. Some are t3/t4's with t3 turbine housings. Others are t3/t4's with t4 turbine housings. The t3/t04s hybrids are slightly less avalible in a real t3 housing, but you can find them around.


AFA t3/t4 hybrids, the T04S 60-1 is the largest relatively easily avalible hybrid you can find. I've seen them layout over 400bhp @ just 9-10psi on 3.0L v6's. They are quite stout for hybrids.
For instance, here's one @ 7psi throwing down a hair over 385bhp.

Now that doesn't directly relate to your project, (Let's vace it... +50% displacement & + 50% firing pulses) - but does demonstrate that those things can easily be extremely under-rated monstors. Most people think all t3/t4's are far to small to do anything major. They're certinaly not that.

 

[Lextreme II]

So Option # 2? Here is a message from my other friend of mine who specialized in turbo applications:

For the turbos, it all depends on the spool up, i have a guy running the stage 3 .63 60-1 making 600 at the wheels with water injection, 500 without, on a 420a 2.4 motor, and he says its very good balance between spool up and top end. so its a matter of preference on where you want to shift the power band. My rule of thumb is allways pick the smaller turbine size or AR when your deciding. This makes the area under the power graph bigger, which means more power throughout RPM band. If you want more top end go with the stage 5

 

[GSMnow]

My 22RE single cam 2.4 L motor (probably does not flow as well as half your 4.7 L) ran very strong on a T3 stage 2 .48 turbine side and a TO4E 60 trim compressor side. My motor was making about 300 hp at 13 psi of boost at 5500 rpm, I would have preffered a smaller 46 trim compressor for my fairly low ping limited power level. A stage 3 turbine would have been the choice for bigger power (on race gas or with a better head), to about 400 hp at 18 psi of boost with that 60 trim compressor. The .48 housing sure got me on boost fairly quick, but my exhaust pressure was climbing fast above 6000 rpm. I ran a .63 housing on a basic T3 60 trim (stock Mustang SVO turbo), and it was a little slower to boost, but then pulled stronger from mid to higher revs until it oversped trying to keep up with my motor. I smoked the bearings in that puppy pretty fast, it is only rated to 250 hp. With the flow of the UZ motor, the Stage 3 .63 will probably come on well before 3000 rpm and flow fine out past 6500. Turbonetics should be willing to work with you on swapping turbine housings to tailor your response vs max top end power. They even changed my Stage 3 to a Stage 2 for me, just for shipping costs. Turbonetics also has a fairly reasonable intake side only ball bearing setup. It is a bit more money, (far cheaper than a GT series though) but it will spool much faster, and will handle alot more abuse from axial loading. My only Turbonetics failure was due to a sleave thrust bearing failure. The ball bearing would have held it. The excessive load was caused when my intake tubing sucked closed while at max boost (I used a huge 3.5 inch radiator hose between the K&N filter and the turbo), causing a huge vacuum ahead of the turbo. It took it several times before I found the cause, and a couple weeks later, I was getting small amounts of oil out the exhaust. Oops. I should have gone for the ball bearing, but they fixed my thrust bearing for just parts and shipping. Great company to deal with. They have grown a ton since then (9 years ago), but they are still enthusiasts at heart.

So, original question, I would go with a pair of stage 3 T3 .63 A/R turbines with TO4E 60 trim compressors for a solid 800 hp setup. Along with the ball bearing sections it should come on boost between 2500 and 3000 rpm and scream to redline. Figure on 15 to 18 psi of boost for 600 to 800 hp with the right cams and porting.

Gary M.

 

[Lextreme II]

Hey Gary,

Thaks for your 4 bangers feedback. I can relate the 2.0-2.4 liters as I just double the cubic. So where ever those Hondas and Toytotas bangers success relate to 4.0-4.7 liter. Its much easier that way. I got a good deal on one of the:

Option # 2:
COMPRESSOR SPECS:T04S housing
flow: 61 lbs/min 781cfm
.70 A/R housing
60 TRIM wheel
TURBINE SPECS:T3
.63 A/R housing
HIGH FLOW 76 TRIM stg 3 wheel
oil lubricated centersection.
for use with external wastegate.
COMES STANDARD WITH 360 DEGREE THRUST BEARING!!!
supportable of 575 whp

So I will work with it. I also found out ball bearing turbo only yield 15% faster spool but cost double.

 

[Toysrme]

1/2 price, around 15-30% slower spool (Depending on the hybrid having 180, or 360* trhust bearings). Stays around 85-100% of the GT35R, just at less than half the cost.
http://not2fast.wryday.com/turbo/maps/t04b-60-1.gif