Avoid TTC Performance!!

[Ryan.g]

Basically 2 monthes ago i finally finished all the V8 Installation and got my v160 all mounted up and working with my custom flywheel. After starting the engine i could hear a whining. Spoke to a few friends in the industy who know there apples one of which is Chris Wilson and it was seen that either my Gearbox was faulty or the adaptor plates are not positioned right... Spoke to Eric @ TTC and basically said the situ and gave him the benefit of the doubt that it might be the gearbox as it was rebuilt.

So got another gearbox from magictorch which i personally mapped and knew the box was sweet. Popped that in and it still was whinning!!!


So spoke to eric again and he said nope the plates are 100% and that 40 cars run these and had no issues. Now i have mapped 2 cars with these adaptor plates so said yes i know they are normally fine but mine are not as the dowel locations have been messed up in the machining and helicoiled again to move them... Eric suggest this is how they are all done!!!! WTF.... Some real quality work there...

He are my plates as i recieved them and a vid of the whinning which only was there when the gearbox was turning. Dumping the clutch got rid of the noise…





http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a346/Fletchy/?action=view&current=SAM_0158.mp4

Soooo decided to get the plates, engine face and gearbox face i
nvestigated using a Faro arm which Eric stated they were originally measured up on.
Well we found the plates to be 0.7mm out on the centre!!





We even found that the plates are that well designed that the starter motor hits the gearbox!!



Had the Dowel location moved properly by a local engineering and no more whining!!!



Now after giving all this data to Eric he was still not willing to pay out for the
damage done to the gearbox and also send me a new plate! Just stated send plate
back and if we find it out we will replace. So £100 down on posting back and still a knackered box.... GREAT!


So word of warning would be to avoid TTC Performance products!!

 

[turboandrew]

Wow that is very unfortunate. You should at least get a reimbursement for the costs you incurred. FWIW, the starter clearance is that way because the plate thickness was designed to preserve the original distance between the transmission input shaft & engine crankshaft. The 2UZGTE rear engine flange actually was further back by 3/4", compared to the 1UZ (referenced from the end of the flywheel). That difference was made up by the thickness in the adapter. This was done so the stock V160 clutch components could be used without any rework, provided you used a 2JZGTE PP/disc/flywheel (with new ring gear and flywheel bolt holes to match), and the V160 would be in the exact position it needs to be in a Supra, so things like gear shift are lined up and the driveshaft don't need to be altered. The downside to this is of course the starter will hit the transmission flange when engaged. I do not know if TTC includes instructions/warning about this, but they should. The transmission flange definitely needs to be clearanced.

 

[4U2QUIK]

well, I can tell you from first hand experience that if your gearbox is whining after using a adaptor plate it's an alignment issue, and 3/4ths of a mm is enough to make a nice bit of noise.
I'm not a fan of faro arms, but there's definately a issue here that you could find with a schoolyard ruler.

(you should see what the repeat tolerance is compared to other cmm's. Single point repeatability is only .024mm on the faro arms. rofl overkill for this application though haha http://www.faro.com/site/resources/share/1274 )

 

[cribbj]

Not Eric (Cowboy Bebop) again......

His name still surfaces every so often, and usually associated with somebody's bad experience. He's been banned from several Toyota based web forums, including this one, which was one of the earliest to give him the boot for his attitude and practices.

4U2Quik (or anyone else stateside) do you have the capability of "fixing" his work? I'm sure there are more than a few of these adapters out there that need it.

Do your research before you buy......

 

[4U2QUIK]

I can fix it if you can get me your numbers from the faro cmm to work from. I'd probably do it for free just for the chance to take ideas (not dimensions lol) from it to make one of my own.

 

[4U2QUIK]

also want to add that I've never had much interest in the v160 as there's better 6 speed alternative that have more support and are much cheaper like the t56. But if the plate falls into my lap it would definately change my priorities.

 

[XR8tt]

Good idea Lol Practice on other parts ...Aha...
Then do your own....

 

[4U2QUIK]

well, how do you think the japanese auto industry got it's start, and then they tought the world how to do it better.
they studied the american product, then improved upon the product and greater yet, thir methodology. (kaizen)

 

[XR8tt]

Yep... I painted other cars before I painted mine LOl...
Seems Cowboy is doing the same...
Should stay with cattle...

 

[samsdad]

Hence why I won't use adapter plates or that Dellows rubbish any more

 

[4U2QUIK]

now, I wouldn't go that far. The adaptor plates just need to be better engineered, and then street tested to the extreme. as far as dellows goes, they're better than most from what I've seen, which isn't much actually. haha
Alignment is key, and 99% of the guys out there don't have the metrology equiptment to get good measurements in the first place. for Example, Ed Oates admittadly does his measurements with hand tools. There's no way his prints are accurate enough. and I'm willing to bet money that most of the people out there aren't doing much better. In order to get a measurement that's good enough I'd use at least a faro arm or better.

 

[Spinnetti]

well, how do you think the japanese auto industry got it's start, and then they tought the world how to do it better.
they studied the american product, then improved upon the product and greater yet, thir methodology. (kaizen)

In fact, Toyota cars got their start by copying a Chevy and working on it until they could match the performance... Not just lore, but part of the company training program on problem solving.... Still, there is no excuse to market any product that doesn't fit. The burden is on the seller for the parts to do what they claim.. because "everybody else sux too" is no excuse at all. If you can't do a professional job making parts, you don't deserve the right to sell them unless you provide a disclaimer that the parts are guesswork or may not fit and you may have to mod on your own. Caveat Emptor I guess, but thanks to the internet, at least we can find out quickly who is honest and who isn't.

 

[XR8tt]

I see alot of old BMC [Mini etc] in old Toyota and Nissan engines...
The Nissan 1600 is practically a 3 series BMW...
The L1800 and L2400 six is virtually a Ford SOHC Pinto/ 2.3 Ford engine..

Like they did with computers...
Studied what the rest of the world built .. Copied and made them with
slightly more speed or memory...

Some of this comes down to the person assembling these products together also...
You always have to check...

 

[TTLex]

This isnt very comforting....im running one of these adapters.....havent had any issue as of yet though.

Ryan, what flywheel clutch combo are you running?

 

[sideshow]

alot of business stay in business for many years even though they do shit work
and everyone who goes there will only go there once
yet these shops stay open for a long time
there is many many people in this world i guess
and many people get fkt over daily in many differnet types of work

 

[BlackUZZ31]

now, I wouldn't go that far. The adaptor plates just need to be better engineered, and then street tested to the extreme. as far as dellows goes, they're better than most from what I've seen, which isn't much actually. haha
Alignment is key, and 99% of the guys out there don't have the metrology equiptment to get good measurements in the first place. for Example, Ed Oates admittadly does his measurements with hand tools. There's no way his prints are accurate enough. and I'm willing to bet money that most of the people out there aren't doing much better. In order to get a measurement that's good enough I'd use at least a faro arm or better.

Hand tools are as good as the hand that holds them, done right can be very close tolerance.

considering Ed is a doctor one would hope he has skilled hands!

 

[XR8tt]

Yea but is a gynecologist ?? LOL....

 

[4U2QUIK]

Hand tools are as good as the hand that holds them, done right can be very close tolerance.

considering Ed is a doctor one would hope he has skilled hands!

not that close. No one does. I promise.
true position within .002 definately not.

I inspect precision parts for a living, and with customers like lawerence livermore labs, Stanford linear accelerator, SanDia Labs, Symyx Labs, and Freeslate I have to know exactly how to measure parts and my results can have zero errors, so I know a thing or two about accuracy, metrology, and statistical quality controll.

 

[youngcnc]

got to agree..

Hi guys
Got to agree with 4U2QUIK about getting true position right..
I have a 3 axis CNC mill that goes to 0.001mm so I can machine out to close tolerance but even I wouldn't risk trying to hand measure an adaptor plate as it so easy to be 0.1 to 0.2 out and not even know it until you have installed the engine and gearbox. It just seems like cheap insurance to get it measured on a Co-ordinate measurement machine and to make an adaptor that you know will work.. It is really easy to make great looking scrap pieces.

This is a picture of a lotus 23 front engine plate..
That said if any of you guys want something made just drop me a line..

Cheers Craig Young

 

[Arnout]

used that plate once, no fitment issues, car did touch the crash barrier because of the bad driver modification