3UZ & NOS?

[LS430R]

First off, I am new to this forum but not new to the Lexus scene or go fast options. I currently have a 2004 Lexus LS430 and the only engine performance mods I have done are Magnaflow Exhaust and a short ram intake by Fujita F5Air. I am thorughly enjoying the overall performance, especially considering how heavy the car is but I want more! (Doesn't everyone on this forum?) From what I have discovered so far, it seems like a wet kit NOS would provide the most bang for the buck but I can't seem to gather any specific details on which kit is best, or installation tips and techniques. If anyone has installed a wet kit on 3UZ I would appreciate any input and details. My biggest issue seems to be where exactly to tap the fuel line since the system appears not to have a fuel return or a fuel rail like a typical american V8. Thanks in advance for all input.

 

[LS430R]

No one???

I posted this question a few days ago and it's had over 50 views but no reply whatsoever. Is this question posted in the wrong area? Do I have to have a minimum amount of posts before I can get some direction and answers? Are there any forum rules that I may be breaking? Or shall I assume that no one here has any experience with NOS on the 3UZ?

 

[Smitherz]

That engine is too expensive to blow with NOS. Everyone is waiting to watch you grenade that thing. =] Welcome to Lextreme. Everyone toys with NOS a little but ends up building a turbo system. I wouldn't bother with NOS. It's a pain in the but and destructive unless you are building an engine for it - drag engine. But your car deserves a nice smooth and correctly tuned turbo. It's just a pretty advanced job for that engine from what I hear. That and a couple other reasons, is why I stuck with the earlier 1UZ. But just spend a little more time researching. I'm SURE there is a Speedshop out in Texas willing to tinker with your engine. I would spend more money on an engine monitoring system than I would the NOS system. It's much more important and will tell you how much damage you are doing when you engage the fog. Check those spark plugs continuously. I've seen TONS of people try and run NOS thinking they will just use "less than the usual and it will be ok". They all learn the hard way and I don't want to think about how expensive that would be in your case! It isn't ok if you are just using it without watching your combustion chamber conditions and it just wrecks the engine. People add NOS but they forget about the fuel that is required. You car is too nice! Race car speed = race car budget = race car noise. Your nice car = nice car speed = nice car weight and smooth ride. Can't have it all. :dunno: Unless you build a turbo system...

 

[cribbj]

As Smitherz said, welcome to Lextreme!

Another point not mentioned, is that not many of us here use, or are fans of nitrous. I thought perhaps our one resident nitrous user (Jibbby) might jump in and share some pearls of wisdom with you, but he hasn't posted in some time.

'Fraid you're on your own for the laughing gas, but if you want some turbo or supercharger advise, a few more of us have been there and done those......

First off, I am new to this forum but not new to the Lexus scene or go fast options. I currently have a 2004 Lexus LS430 and the only engine performance mods I have done are Magnaflow Exhaust and a short ram intake by Fujita F5Air. I am thorughly enjoying the overall performance, especially considering how heavy the car is but I want more! (Doesn't everyone on this forum?) From what I have discovered so far, it seems like a wet kit NOS would provide the most bang for the buck but I can't seem to gather any specific details on which kit is best, or installation tips and techniques. If anyone has installed a wet kit on 3UZ I would appreciate any input and details. My biggest issue seems to be where exactly to tap the fuel line since the system appears not to have a fuel return or a fuel rail like a typical american V8. Thanks in advance for all input.

 

[Lextreme II]

Even with NOS, that engine is not too strong for FI. I think for the setup, a Root charger would work. Richwood has a VVTi manifold for the engine.

 

[cribbj]

Even with NOS, that engine is not too strong for FI. I think for the setup, a Root charger would work. Richwood has a VVTi manifold for the engine.

David, have you seen one of these manifolds, or seen a pic of one? If so, post it up!

 

[Lextreme II]

Andrew sent me some pictures fews months ago but i need to do some digging

 

[LS430R]

Thanks...

To all here who replied... So, if I'm hearing you correctly I must be crazy of just ignorant! Ok, so I'll admit it... I'm pretty crazy. Now that I have that out of the way... thanks for the warm welcome. Turbo? What about the lag? Roots Style? Hmmm... I think I like the roots style concept the best but from what I have gathered so far, that's typically going to cost several thousands. What about a centrifugal blower? Any advice? So if NOS isn't the way to go due to the risks involved then what would any of you recommend to get some more power while getting the most bang for the buck and still maintain good street manners? I want a quicker ET but still want the driveability that the LS is known for without sacrificing engine reliability. Since NOS only hits at WOT and can be turned on and off it really sounded attractive. I was originally thinking of nothing more that 100HP shot and was planning on adding an oil cooler to the tranny and reinforcing it (the tranny) at the same time. Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[XR8tt]

Right combination with a turbo there's NO lag...
Especially with engines this size..
Easier on rotating assembly of them all..
BUT like them all its up the tune !!!

 

[cribbj]

Our resident AEM tuner & guru, Mitch Pederson may jump in here as he's just tuned Chris Rado's personal GS400 (sorry forgot the year), which has the VVTi engine and has been twin turbo'd.

This was with a standalone AEM EMS, so you might want to contact Mitch to see how he split the responsibilities of the two EMS's. I know that the AEM was controlling injectors, VVTI, and probably ignition. It may have been controlling the tranny as well.

Point is that the later VVTi motors can be turboed, and the VVTi system controlled with aftermarket EMS's. This might be an ultimate goal for you on your journey with this engine.

 

[JBrady]

Welcome to CL!

The problem with "our" engines is that in 95 they went lightweight internally. This means very skinny piston rods and lightweight pistons. Neither is good for nitrous, turbo/supercharging. Otherwise each of those options has appeal.

The critical thing is that you do NOT detonate or pri-ignite this engine, it will break rods.

The LEAST performance friendly part on the engine is the horrible exhaust manifolds. Get a set of headers before you think about adding exhaust demands with nitrous or supercharging. Added bonus is the headers will give you a nice gain throughout the entire RPM operating range.

I have contemplated nitrous but the knowledge that modern intake manifolds are NOT designed to carry fuel and or nitrous. If you do not provide enough fuel to any single cylinder the nitrous can immediately ruin that cylinder and with it the entire engine. A broken rod is death.

So, you would need a 8 port nitrous system. That would be tough to get only 10hp per port nozzles for a total of 80hp which is probably the MAX you would want to TRY to add to these WEAK engines. Multiport nitrous is also expensive. You would also want a good controller. Don't forget to add the refills to the price of the system.

A LOW boost turbo or supercharger system could be very nice but you will be VERY hard pressed to do this for under $5000. I always advise people to take whatever budget they come up with and DOUBLE it.

Regardless, start with the headers... you will be glad you did. Keep the rest of the exhaust stock. www.ssheaders.com Use the factory gaskets, studs and nuts NOT the parts supplied with the headers.

 

[stevechumo]

Mitch is currently helping me tuning the AEM for my SC400. He's a very knowledgeable man, and I'm sure he could suggest what ECU that's good for your LS430. If you have a budget of around $5K, then a low boost turbo system is very doable. There won't be any turbo lag if you size it correctly. A single turbo is much simpler than a twin system. If you're interested in turbo or supercharger, then we're here can help you out with the ideas and perhaps some parts.

I wouldn't go for NOS. Although it's used under WOT, but if you enagage it at the wrong, such as at low RPM with the stock engine, it could be very bad for the engine.

 

[Smitherz]

Turbos engage nice and smooth after the engine has spun up a little bit. Easy on the transmission compared to SC. You can have more fun tuning a turbo compared to putting a pulley on a SC and possibly being disappointed. Turbo cars are so fun to drive. Ok that's enough before I start thinking of building a system for mine...

 

[AL510]

nitrous.

Hi guys, i have been lurking for a while and find a lot of useful info here.
I currantly have a 98 hilux with a late model 1uz with the skinny rods.I bought this motor befor i new any better.
I have had about 15 quarter mile passes with this setup and am currantly running a 100 horse shot of nitrous straigh off the line with a best of 11.97 at 110mph.It is making about 320 at the wheels on 98 pump fuel with octane booster and showing no signs of detonation.tomorrow i am going to dyno it again on vp 109 fuel with a 150 shot so im hoping to see about 360-370 hp.we will see if the rods can handle it.
cheers, Alan.

 

[LS430R]

OK, so what next???

Well from the replies I have seen here, there are alot of opinions. I don't have enough experience with the Japanese engines so I can't talk intelligently about them like I could if we were discussing the typical american engine (say a 350 chevy small block). I must say that my first instinct is to explore the NOS approach but that has apparently been shot down (and with several good arguments). I'm not thoroughly convinced that a turbo is better than a supercharger but it seems to be the most popular notion on this board. So that brings me to this point... is there anyone here in South Texas that is going to the TX2K9 the weekend of March 20th? If so, will you be running any of the FI setups discussed here? I would like to see exactly what the turbo is capable of so that i can convince myself that's what I want to do. Also, since there's not an "off the shelf" turbo kit who would I inquire about getting a turbo setup? Is there anyone in South Texas that does that? Thanks again for all the insight and replies. By the way, I live in Victoria, Texas and travel frequently to Houston because I have an office there too. Of course, I would be willing to go anywhere in South Texas to see one of these turbo setups first hand if someone were willing to entertain that notion.

 

[cribbj]

I'm just north of Houston and have a supercharged (twinscrew Opcon Autorotor, similar to the older Kenne Bell units) 1UZ (non-VVTi). It's not in the car, however, but if you want to see and hear it run, here's a link: http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u228/cribbj/?action=view&current=MVI_3629.flv This was a 498 BHP run (net HP to the dyno)

I'm away for a month this Saturday, so won't be at TX2K9, however you're welcome to come around when I return home and have a look at the motor. Next time we dyno, you're welcome to drop by as well.

As far as shops go, Chris Johnson of Performance Motorsports in Austin, and Kean Wang of BoostLogic, also in Austin (next to Chris) are probably the most experienced shop in TX for doing serious mods to Supras and SC's. They're big fans of the 2JZ-GTE, however, and AFAIK, don't have much experience with the UZ family. No doubt both these guys and their cars will be at the TX2K9 event. Look for the BoostLogic Supra.

 

[XR8tt]

I find this forum informative..
http://www.turbomustangs.com/turbokitpage.php

What would work on 4.6 Cobra, should work on XUZ engines..

 

[LS430R]

I find this forum informative..
http://www.turbomustangs.com/turbokitpage.php

What would work on 4.6 Cobra, should work on XUZ engines..

Anyone else agree with this mindset? In theory it sounds like it makes sense but then again according to many of you here, the internals in the 3UZ are "weak" and lightweight. I'm not certain that's the case with the Ford 4.6L engine. Thanks again for the guidance and input. I will weigh my options carefully. Keep the information coming.

 

[JBrady]

Anyone else agree with this mindset? In theory it sounds like it makes sense but then again according to many of you here, the internals in the 3UZ are "weak" and lightweight. I'm not certain that's the case with the Ford 4.6L engine. Thanks again for the guidance and input. I will weigh my options carefully. Keep the information coming.

It makes more sense to say the turbo sizing and intercooler(s) for the Ford 4.6 V8 would be more or less correct in size for the Lexus 4.3 V8.

You could build a monster system for your car but the stock engine would not tolerate much over 100hp increase if that much. Turbocharging is the least abusive way to increase your power compared to increasing RPM and breathing, supercharging and/or nitrous.

For a quick gain the headers will be inexpensive and give real results. To go much above that you will want to consider the cost of re-enforcing the internals of your engine with pistons and rods.

A low boost turbosystem could be constructed to give you that 100hp or so increase. If that was your maximum goal then that would work reasonably well. You will need someone that can tune your fuel system to provide SAFE operation under boost or you could ruin your engine at VERY low boost if it creates detonation.

Seriously, turbocharging or other major modification is NOT an inexpensive, easy or trouble free endeavor.

If you want more or less factory reliability at a reasonable cost get the headers and a tuning computer and tuner that can optimize your engine for premium fuel ONLY operation. Headers alone require no tuning and will work just like factory only with more power and torque.

 

[stevechumo]

Another alternative is to swap to a Tundra 4.7L block and use SC400 heads, and supercharge it for around 7 psi. However, the engine mount might need to be customized.