31 dead at Virgina Tech University....

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jibbby

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Sad to see another lunitic end the lives of 31 promising college students...What is this world coming to? The thing that got to me is I have a close friend that graduated from Virgina Tech University and said it was the safest place on earth....Unbelievable...

Anybody have any thoughts on this unfortunate situation? How do you stop something like that from happening in the future?
 
Hey Jibbby,

Unfortunately, that will be a question asked for years maybe centuries to come.

I can't imagine what the parents of these kids are going though right now. Not to imagine the countless lives that have been and will be effected by this horrific event.

My prayers go out to each and every single person that lost there lives as well as those who are left to deal with the aftermath...

Sincerely,

TK
 
As were the Trade Centers here in New York, once a location becomes a focus - for whatever reason - they will be repeatedly approached regardless.

From a Security standpoint - beyond a Penitentiary style lock down - little can be done to prevent a deranged person - with knowledge of the Campus - from wreaking havoc before being taken down.

This is the worst spree for a Campus in American History.


Ah yeah....... the 23 year old shooter - was a Student - 'Ghost of Columbine High School' in Littleton, Colorado.


Senseless Human History.
 
Until the gun lobby is taken down I don't think things will improve.

A society that allows one persons right to bear arms to override anothers right to life must be sick.

There must be many good American citizens that wish to see access to arms severely restricted, won't stop the carnage but must help to restrict it.
 
RMS - Don't tell that to all the Southerners whom love to hunt for game, and love the right to bear arms... I personally am guilty of possessing a gun at home for "protection only", Also for those that live in bad areas like South Central LA, Watts, LBC, Compton, and every other slum areas in the USA, it is so necessary to have the right to bear arms to protect your family...

Watch dogs don't always work....

Take away all the guns, the gang bangers, crooks and robbers will still come with knives and baseball bats...

However, you do have a good point RMS, removing all the guns would help matters for sure, but people in the US wouldn't go for that...I would say how about increased Capital punishment such as, if you kill someone or many in cold blood and not in self defense then you should immediately face the electric chair or a firing squad.. Also, you get busted doing minor crimes you get cained. It works wonderfully against crime in some other countries.... Is it Singapore that cains for punishment and has nearly a zero crime rate?...

Doing that within justified reason may stop the gang violence altogether and so many other crimes too...No one wants to get a beating, they just want a lawyer...

The liberals on this forum are going to love this post....
 
so sad to see this happening yet again.

but i guess these shootings will continue to occur as long as people see owning guns as a right, not a privelege.

change the mindset and you change the outcomes.

an old passage from a bygone time where you had the right to bear arms (meaning swords and later rifles) to defend from a British invasion has more say than the right of tens of thousands of lives lost due to the ability to (and even licensed ability to!) carry a concealed weapon.

times change. laws are updated all the time on euthanasia, abortion, sexual offences - so why not gun control? do the american people revel in the fact that every day their life is in danger from the unstable bloke next to you in line for the checkout?

but no, it's terrorists that are the problem - not the laws. In america - you are 300,000x more likely to be shot while paying for gas than be involved in a terrorist strike.

but what does your government spend (most of) their money on?

why is it that in detroit, one person is murdered every 10 minutes or so, yet over the river in canada only 1 person a week dies from a gun-related death? most canadians own 6 or 7 guns at any one time. (quote from farenheit 9/11). now that's not propaganda. that's just how it is.

i SHUDDER to think what the USA would be like if EVRYONE owned 6 or 7 guns each.
 
Well Aaron, I guess your really lucky you don't live here in the US then... You Aussie's get mad and angry you throw a pint of beer at each other....Here in the US we blast each other with AK40 assault rifles and what not...

Actually it's not all that bad here, just in certain areas, and isolated incidents like this college shooting which doesn't happen all that often....You need to remember we have a very high population of people here in the USA, so the numbers may seem high at a glance but when compared to the population they really are not...

It sounds like you guys got it pretty good and civil over there Aussie land.. Do a little surfing and battle some sharks once in a while, then work on your 1uz-fe swap and maybe battle some trespassing Roo's..Alot better then battling city thugs for sure...
 
It may seem arrogant, but I don't care about the world opinion on posession of a gun. It makes me feel safe that if someone was defacing my property or trying to hurt me, I could either detain them until law enforcement arrived or defend my life, my family, and my property.

I'm 100% less worried about the people who go to gun shows and go hunting and practice at the range than the idiots (the dangerous people aren't always poor)...


The majority of people who own weapons in the US are respectable people who have them for self defense or sport.

You say 300,000 times more likely to be attacked while pumping gas than in a terrorist strike. Think about the number of people in the United States. Roughly 300 million. Now think about the population of Australia, roughly 20 million. I'd say that our government has a few more people to look after than just

Many people in the US think they should just be spoon fed for their lifetime and live on the welfare system and hang around gas stations and malls looking to increase income easily. Therein lies the root of the problem. All of these people think that they deserve certain things without any work output. These people HAVE the ability to go and get a job and pull themselves up into society. There are ENDLESS numbers of jobs available for people in the US. They only need to seek and work.

Last, if someone truly wants a weapon, legal or not, there is a way sadly.
 
I am sorry to be posting so much on this thread but I am just jazzed up over this and would really like to see some positive changes happen in this country in my life time...

91 4X4, you are correct in my humble opinion....Government aid programs such as welfare, section 8 housing, SSI, general relief, etc...do in fact cripple people and families of low income status...Gives them too much free time and free money to do nothing but get into more trouble... Some take it too the next level and start dealing drugs, and or even doing drugs, then some seek out crime to support their bad habbits if the free government money doesn't cover there needs...If they decide they want to try and get a job they then will lose there free government benifits...So that in itself will hold back some from progressing.

Anyway, after years alot develope a rap sheet so long they won't even qualify for a basic McDonalds job. Which infact they would never work at anyway because they are use to making $500 a day slinging rock cocaine on the corner... This goes on for generation to generation in the ghetto's sadly...Some ghetto women even have more children just so they can qualify for more free government money and housing..It's such a joke...I have seen hundreds of families live like that...

Can you blame them for this? Free money sounds good to me...Maybe, you can say people like that never had positive roll models and they are simply a product of their environment... Either way our government leaders are to blame. Instead of giving out our hard earned tax money to these programs which really do no good, maybe that money would be better spent on educational programs, trade learning centers, etc....

I can speak about this topic intellegently because I saw this first hand for many years managing apartment buildings in the East Los Angeles and in the South Central areas for most of my 20's...I managed section 8 apartement housing projects and buildings for a management company...I still to this day am disgusted by all this after many years removed from those bad areas and property management...

I still remember inspecting Section 8 units, seeing the families with big screen TV's, new sofa's, parents on drugs, and other lavish stuff and supposedly these people are low income and in need of free government housing and aid...Yeah right!!!!! That's where a good portion of our tax money goes unfortunately......

Man, what is one to do?
 
jibby,We have our moments in Oz too, it's not all beer and cookies!As an outsider with no knowledge of your laws, it appears that access to hand guns is so easy that any "nutter" or "physcho" can obtain them. Seems that in many ways Oz is following the US of A but thank heaven not with gun control.BTW - if an Aussie had a fight with you he wouldn't throw the beer, he would drink it first ! Got to get your prioritys right.


Yep ---- see what you mean about Southerners
 
Jibby

Put the law you want, put the consequences you want, do you really think that guy who killed all those people tought about the electric chair before doing this?

and for all the others who say " I'll be able to protect my familly"

Are you that much in danger? As your neighboor been attacked lately?

I don't think any of the family of those who died today have been robered by a criminal. I don't think they do know a lot of people who have needed to defend their familly with a gun. But still, how much familly destroyed? what could they do? Nothing. But if there was a way to not have any weapons except for hunting or gun club (under strict reserve) They might still be here today.

You know, the genius is one hair from the crazy one. today you're a good guy who wish to defend, tomorrow you might be the one who'll be able to kill.

well, that's only my humble opinion.
 
Toys, nice gun collection. Based on your collection I would venture to guess you are either a peace officer of some fashion or in the military at one time back in Aussie land...Am I right or wrong?

RMS - I am laughing my arse off at that last remark of yours..

UZ-Quebec - We don't have information on the shooter yet so his make up and personality is not yet known....I am not saying I have an answer to fix crime but I do believe some methods do work in other countries...

No, I am not in any kind of present danger that I know of, but I did have a few crazy times in the past where I felt very safe with my 357 magnum Smith & Wesson in hand rather then just a clenched fist....Home protection was one of those occasions years back.... Glad I had my revolver because it quickly defused the situation with out it even being fired... There is positive and negatives that can be drawn from owning a gun...First off you need to be very responsible with it....

Also I dought you have to worry about me killing anyone in the near future because of one hair away from being crazy. I don't know exactly what you are trying to say here QUebec...I read it as you saying everyone is close to insanity and capable of capital murder..... I don't think so pal......
 
you never heard that?

it's a popular sentence. There's one hair seperating the line between being a Genius and being insane. I don,t say everybody will be insane. it's just, you never know, today you are a good guy, next week, i dunno, you find that your wife slept with another guy, the breaker jumps and you go after him. (supposition here!!!) it can be as simple as that. Yes, you need to be responsible to own a gun, the problem is that even if you're not, you can still have one.
 
..."Can you blame them for this?" "... Either way our government leaders are to blame." ..."Man, what is one to do?"


Yes, I do blame them....each person is responsible for their own actions...Choices lead to consequences, Life is often tough, and not fair...but for how long will any of us give excuses for poor decisions and choices???

Our government leaders are not to blame for people's choices to commit crimes, especially murder, and senseless murders....The ones to blame are the perpetrators themselves...They are the ones that devalue human life so much that it means no more to kill an innocent person than it does for them to step on a cockroach, or tie their shoes...I will not give such criminals one iota of sympathy, nor except their excuses that the so called "devil made me do it"...People need to take responsibility for their actions. Anybody with half a mind and some real determination can get out of the slums, poor house, abusive situation, etc, etc, etc, if they choose to...It may not be easy, and it may seem hopeless, but anybody can change and become a contributiing member of society if they want to. Anybody.

What is a man to do? Take responsibility for their lives and actions, live by a code of honor, and conviction that is based upon healthy self image, and unselfishness, and they can change....

I am most sorrowful for the innocent victims of these cowardly murderers, and the loss of their hopes and dreams, and that of their families. I will definitely send a prayer up for the victims. It is indeed a sad day...

Ryan
 
I completely agree with SC400TT's comments on less fortunate people becoming contributing members of society.

UZ-Quebec, both of my neightbors have been robbed in the past 2 years. One neighborhood over, there was a huge gang-drug bust. Just found out from our local PD that a house down the street (which always had lots of people around) was a house for drug trafficing. Worst part is, this isn't the worst side of town!

It does provide a sense of security in this crazy world, and while it may not be for the exact reason stated in the US Constitution, it is certainly the right of the people to bear arms and protect themselves.

My prayers go out to the victim's and their families.
 
"Another Shrimp on the Barbie"

Looks like the Barn Door is open again....... now where did that Horse go...mmm



damn...... my serious side is itching .....:rant:





Liberal ? sure...that's me...... but..... I'll drag your dead body inside after I put a bullet in your thieving skull - just to be 'Politically Correct'..... can I get an AMEN! ;)





Liberals ? What is that anyway ? Commie Pink-o 's Tree Huggers ?






Here Stateside, struggling 'Liberals' over the years have brought you:


Health - Education - Welfare:



Enjoyed by your Grand Parents / Parents and yourself - the very strengths that have built our Nation -

and now according to Your Plan, is the 'fault' of .....'Liberals'........No?........ really...Conservatives did this ?..... and your references are - FOX NEWS - ?



Pres. Regan - Conservative- while in Office, was sending money out of his own pocket monthly, to families that wrote to him about their Food Stamps being revoked and their now malnourished children and Elderly:

[as a direct result of His 'Modern Conservative Fiscal Policies']

- Noble dude that Ronnie....'A True Conservative'.


Unrelated Attitudes?



- I'm a New Yorker - I Vote 'Independent' as it is better to Vote for the right Idea rather than 'The Party' plan.


Without H-E-W, you've a Nation of struggling desperate people, who thru no fault of their own - are 'financially embarrassed'.......... so .......belittle and ... blame the less fortunate and pass the Brews Bro 'cause it's The Grand Party Flag ?


........ one of these worthless Welfare money suking folks kid gets an Education at the expense of our Nations Taxpayers -

and works at Forsythe Institute in Boston Mass. - researching Stem Cell transcription - and helps perfect Cardiac Regeneration - perhaps saving your childs life later on ....... No? aww....... so one makes it out - the rest are dirt-bag losers.........I ain't payin' for sum dumb.....


Many of the Research Group come from less than 'Optimum' financially grounded backgrounds....... Oh .....'Free Money Dirt-Bags' ?


Yes, life wonderful when you have choices - how did you happen to come to have yours?......... "All by myseff..... yesser":




American History Suks:


During my Mothers' time, 'yawn', - in NYC - yes she IS still alive and taking up valuable Resources paid for by Taxpayers - in her 80s now Bless her dimples - Columbia University Phd. Nursing - parents were Immigrants from Ireland - Mom's last Gig:

> SING SING Prison/AIDS Ward/ 17 to 24 year olds - Retired at age 77:


In Her day, Alleyways between buildings were called 'Angel Ways', since that is where you went should you not have Rent monies, were out of work, were sick with a Cold - no monies for Medical Care from the STATE or FEDERAL Gov't - no Rent Assistance Sec. 8 as 'this abomination' didn't exist then - and your family did not want you to infect them with a Cold/Flu Virus as there were no Flu Shots - so you were 'put out' - 'for the greater good'.


This was everyday events here in New York - and all across this Great Collapsing Welfare Cheat Land of Ours.


The Elderly were shuffled / escorted to the Alley when they were beyond what care a family could provide - 'The White Sleep - which comes from Hypothermia, brought them 'Home' - all in a 'Conservative Fashion'.



"G'bye GranMa!....we Love You!"... you think this is a Joke ?



Lorries were brought around @ 4AM to collect the dead -



courtesy of the large Business Ownerships who didn't want the groaning s at the stench to interfere with Sales.




Health - Education - Welfare are 'Options' for a Civilized Society:

a 'Compassionate' response to the 'Live and Let Die' opinions of Our visually impaired among us - so ....... call us Liberals if you must...



You have to hunt for these grandeurs of 'Americana History' nuggets - as you won't see much of it in Text Books issued to the kids - as we don't want them to see how very merciless the times were - not that long ago - nor to arm them against what 'Fellow Politicians' might in the Future deem as:

'Necessary Actions'.


Our current President attempted a 'Necessary Action' - to undo our Nations support system recently - with his calling for each person to have their own 'Social Security Account' - to do with what they would for their own 'Social Security' - thus turning back the clock on sanity.



He has supported illegal immigration not only to provide Business Peers a much cheaper labor force - but to break the back of our Health - Education - Welfare - Legal support systems - which now overtaxed without additional resources - will continue to fail - we lost 4 Hospitals in NYC this year because they were helping those 'without'.



His Leadership seeks to dump Social Security 'because it is broken' - thus freeing people' from a taxation that goes toward the greater good of the Nation - personal self interest?



The 'Right Wing Conservatives' have sold a bill of goods to the 'True Believers'
that all these Illegal Immigrant 'Undocumented' Workers 'contributions' will somehow pay for their Social Security in the future.




Canada ? The Canadian Way is better ?




Hey! it's 'Socialized Medicine' up there Scotty! - the 'Commie Pink-0' Way - Aye Captain - NAZI Sabbatours!





Down and Out:


Six years ago, I won for the Disabled of our Nation, participation in the Section 8 Mortgage Assistance Program - which allows families to assist a Disabled person to secure a permanent Home for themselves - allowing their Sec. 8 Assistance payment to go toward the Mortgage.



I can understand the differing attitudes as to conceptual 'free money' - 'free health care' - 'free education', but understand the 'Options' results 'Right Wing Conservatives' are calling for loudly:



Lack of pre natal Nutrition - moderate starvation - illness/suffering/early childhood disease - slow lingering death and illiteracy for a huge segment of our population - for a marginal increase in their disposable income.




No man,...... that ain't what I said......




Do you Honestly believe, that should Taxation for H-E-W be stricken - which is what the far right Conservative Platform quietly calls for, by the way - 'Hell-Oh' ?




that 'Your' Politicians would allow Your Money to remain 'Untaxed' by them - denying their Self Aggrandizement Pet Projects - The Memorials to Remember Them by ?





Toto....... do you know where you are ?






Social Security Income - Disability:


'Free Money' ? HeYeah BaBY! the 'Party' never stops !




Basic SSI-D payment here in New York, one of the Best in the Nation, is $710.00 per month - to cover:




Rent / Clothing / Bedding / Utilities/ Transportation / Laundry / Emergencies / Medical costs & supplies not covered / Co-Payments - hell, a Haircut is $10.00 without a Tip !




... less money by one third than what it costs
for a set of Billet Cams - to survive a Month.








Drug Dealing dirt bags on Welfare?

One arrest for Drug possession/sale - by ANY member of a family receiving
'Assistance' - will lose the entire ball of wax for all - regardless if the single parent Mother had any knowledge whatsoever what her Teen kid is doing to afford his Nike kicks........ so the 4 year old and it's siblings are now to go where and eat what, clothed in what?




Ever been 'Refused Services' at a Hospital - ?




$175.00 up front just to get in baby, or get out........ just some dead-beat Ho coughing up blood..... Oh.......she's a clerk at 7-11 who can't afford Health Care .....










OK - enough.




Liberal or Conservative - Dirtbag or Hero, it all changes rapidly when it is YOU and YOURS that they are dragging from a Burning Wreck on the Highway - or saving out of sickness or illiteracy or homelessness - .



The Trick is for any Society - stay out of Wrecks -
and to do so requires a commitment to:



Health - Education - Welfare of ALL citizens - a 'Liberal' stance ?




.....there......... I feel much better........don't you ? ;):Eyecrazy:
 
SC400TT, I believe you are right in saying we do ultimately have the choice to make good descisions in ones life regardless of our painful situations...However, with that being said let me give you one situation and tell me how does one make good choice's out of this:

Mother get's pregnant at the age of 16 from a dead beat father hooked on crack...Crack baby is born, the now 17 year old mother is pregnant again, she seeks out government housing assisstance and fills out all the paperwork to go on welfare because all her friends and family do the same and get paid......She tried briefly to get a job but could not, lack of education, communication skills, and the pregnancies didn't allow her to do so....so now she is on the dole, and government aid programs.... The mother has too much free time now and hangs around bad influences and is now hooked on drugs. Her two young kids grow up with very little love and guidance, their full time roll model is a crack mother whom is selling everthing to just get a hit from day to day and barely finds the time to feed and bath the kids....Child services come and take the kids away, mother gets them back later on... Now the kids are teens and involved in gangs because they are desperately seeking out roll models, companionship and guidance of some sort....They find it gangs and other bad influences that they are most familiar with... They, the two kids continue to go in and out of jail. Needless to say they dropped out of school at a young age because they had no one to repremand them or push them toward a quality education and develope a strong work ethic... Etc..Etc... The cycle repeats it's self generation to generation...

Can you really expect these two crack babies to make good decisions growing up based on what they have seen thus far in their short life times? There are no positive roll models in their lives...There is no one to show them right or wrong...They just see friends gang banging and making money by robbing and steeling and selling dope.....They say that's what I want to do because then you get paid and get the hoes... Maybe they can make a conscious decision to turn away from this destructive life style....maybe, maybe not.....Anyway, believe it or not but those types of situations happen more then you would think in the ghetto's and low income areas....... This is where and why criminal activity originates from mostly... This is why our jails are so packed...

I believe it all starts at the welfare system...No free money you have no choice but to find work or you starve, find recycle, seek out od jobs, work at a car wash, go to school, anything but don't get the free money......

Milnerscoupe- I understand there are real families that actually are in real need of food stamps and other basic necessities but the buck stops at the government and the free money programs in alot of cases.. In my opinion the welfare system needs a serious overhaul, it's failing so many....Is your Clinton to blame for opening up the welfare flood gates to obtain the minority vote, maybe? This is what is crippling our nation and fueling crime...It's all a damn shame if you ask me....
 

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Hey Jibbby,

Wow! Interesting topic. Just curious as to how we went from mourning the loss of the students at Virgina Tech to crack babies, welfare, gang bangers, government cheese allocation, the ghetto, slums, poverty and the likes...

Although all of you have presented some very interesting analysis regarding such worldly affairs, I'm just particulary greatful that I reside in a country that allows me to worship and pray for those who have fallen victim to such a heinous and utterly senseless crime without fear of persecution...

If memory serves me correct, none of the issues mentioned above had or have anything to do with the situation at Virgina Tech. The assailant was not impoverished nor was the location of the university in the hood...

I guess I'm just concerned that we've taken a situation and once again placed blame on the underpriviledged of our society.

And finally one last comment and I'll close. Regarding your statement of Clinton and our current welfare system.

In August 1996, Congress passed and former President Clinton signed what is now the "Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act ", which ended 61 years of AFDC guaranteed cash assistance.

This law forces welfare recipients to find work within 2 years, that's it, that's all. Furthermore, a welfare recipient cannot recieve benefits for more than 5 years within their lifetime...

Prior to the inactment of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act, a welfare recipient would receive assistance as long as they had children. I have personal knowledge of people doing just that.

I applaud Clinton on his efforts to reform welfare in this country. It was long over due...

I for one, believe that welfare is no more than modern day slavery...it keeps those less fortunate in a mere state of existance, comfortable and in a state of acceptance. It keeps them out of our board rooms, our universities, our government offices, etc.

I would love to see the sytem abolished entirely; however, in order for that to happen, there would have to be more opportunities...and for that to happen, well, let's just say those who have the power would have to be a bit more creative in developing those opportunities and that my friend starts with our defunct educational system...

Peace and Blessing,

Todd
 


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