1UZFE aluminum Fidanza flywheel

username said:
Honestly, I will look into the 2jzgte pressure plate size and clutch size. This may work. However, I have a feeling that the clutch is going to be too large for the 1uz ring-gear, and honestly, I dont think it is necessary.
The 2JZGTE clutch is not too big. The reason is that the ring gear is behind the friction surface, (look at attached pics) which works on engines which have the starter mounted on the engine side. I suspect the friction surface in the 3S clutch is much smaller because it cannot do this.

Also, has anyone checked if the 3S fflywheel actually fits on the crankshaft properly, and the hole in the center of the flywheel is big enough to allow the input shaft poke through? Do you have a pilot bearing picked out?

The 2JZGTE flywheel is perfectly "hub-centric" on the 1UZ crankshaft. It's almost as if it were designed to be used for this (expect the smaller ring gear). Even the 2JZGTE pilot bearing fits in the 1UZ crank perfectly.

IMO, I'd rather worry about weight later and have the largest surface you can get now. A 2JZGTE single kevlar lined clutch disc and heavy duty pressure plate will hold 700 hp. I would much rather have that then a metal based clutch disk (speaking from experience). A metal based disk will also destroy that flywheel in no time. A kevlar disk will barely harm a flywheel.

Contrary to popular belief, lighter is not always better. You do not want to go too light on the flywheel. The flywheel I am working on should not be heavier than 15 lbs, which is still 20 lbs lighter than the stock 2JZGTE flywheel.

I just spoke with Rob from RPS, and hopfully in about a week he is making another run of 2JZGTE flywheels, so that's when mine should get made. Basically all that needs to change is make the crankshaft holes farther apart and the diameter of the flywheel where the ring gear attaches a little larger -that's it (I sent him the proper ring gear from a 1UZ flexplate).

However, I don't want to discourage anyone from trying something different, even if you can't get a group buy and have to pay extra for a one-off (like me). It's worth the effort to have more than one solution. The 3S based flywheel will probably be much cheaper and may better suited for a W58 tranny, clutch, pressure plate, while the 2JZGTE flywheel may be better suited for a v160 6 speed and its (different, pull type) clutch & pressure plate.
 

username

New Member
Turboandrew,
Good to hear from you, I have enjoyed reading your posts and seeing your work.
The 2jzgte clutch is too big for the ring-gear/flywheel which is why an enlarged platform is put on the front of the flywheel you show in the pictures. This is added weight. Yes, the friction surface is much smaller on the 3sgte. However, it is not too small for the power outputs of 99.9999% of the people on this board.
Yes, the 3sgte flywheel center fits the crankshaft perfectly. However, even if it did not, please remember, this is 1uzfe flywheel being made by fidanza. It will fit perfectly.
The pilot bearing of choice depends on the spline shaft of the tranny. For most toyota trannies the 2jzgte pilot bearing works well. For those of us not using a toyota tranny, two simple measurements referenced against a bearing catalogue will yield the appropriate part #.
Worrying about weight later is a "too late" battle. For weight reduction to be safe and significant it needs to be part of the initial design and materials choice.
If an enormous surface area flywheel and heavy clutch were best for performance, why does every race team use the smallest/lightest flywheel they can feasibly make? Why does every high performance vehicle (911 twin turbo, austin martin vanquish, ferrari maranello and enzo, mercedes mclaren, ford GT40, etc) use a flywheel the size of a music CD with a multi-stage clutch? I agree that a light flywheel is not best for all applications. However, for performance, there is nothing better... and lighter is never light enough.
Yes, a metal based clutch will be very hard on a flywheel, but it will last a lot longer than a kevlar clutch. I destroyed two kevlar clutches in less than 30K miles. Besides, the fidanza flywheel has a steel insert that is replaceable ($50 from JEGS). A steel insert is cheaper, easier, and faster to replace than a clutch or solid flywheel.
I maintain, you will not find a better flywheel for the 1uzfe anywhere. To boot, it is cheaper (for US folks).
Finally, yes, I am amazed that so few people are interested in this. I have already begun the process of finding someone to make a one-off. However, I will hold onto this group buy for the long haul (a second or third flywheel cant hurt... it just means I can make more cars). It may be a while until we reach ten people, but it will definately be worth it.
 

xirforever

Moderator
Very good and informative posts to all of you. Its good to keep asking questions as it reasures me the 3sgte clutch will work fine and now username you have done it. Thanks for your input and ill just use the 3sgte clutch and parts with my r154 tranny and ill be set. Hope we can spark some more interested buyers....

Thanks,
Nick
 

cribbj

"Supra" Moderator
Staff member
Andrew, Max (Red Supra), myself, and others come from the Supra community, and we've tried lightened flywheels (Fidanza, Mueller, etc.) with multi plate clutches (HKS Triple, Exedy, TRD Twin) and found them to be pretty miserable to drive on the street. They may be great track combinations, but the Supra with its smallish 3.0 litre displacement needs some help to get rolling smoothly before the turbo kicks in, and the combination of the small, lightweight flywheel, and these on/off clutches, makes for a difficult and jerky launch in traffic or from a light. Many of the Supra crowd have now abandoned the lightweight flywheels and returned to the stock heavy one, and just use a single plate feramic, carbon, or kevlar clutch with a higher clamping force.


The 1UZ equipped with a light flywheel, but also its greater displacement "ought" to launch better than the 2JZ with a light flywheel, depending of course on the weight of the vehicle it's in. If my project wasn't already based on an A/T, I would have tried one of these.

John
 

autronic

Moderator
username:

I have the same problem as the Aussie guys, shipping it to me. I'm in Norway and shipping from the US is expensive + I now know a guy who own and run a CNC workshop.....:)

turboandrew:

I have a question about what single plate clutch to use. My car will be a constant AWD, it will give about 600 crankshaft hp, but the clutch killer will be the torque, about 600 lb/ft.

Will the 2JZ aftermarked sprung centre clutches ( PBS ? ) be able to take this ? I'd hate to go the AP Racing twin disk, unsprung centre route.


Anybody know the Toyota part number for the starter ring that fits the 1UZFE ?

Sorry for getting the tread derailed.
 

username

New Member
A good friend of mine, "the flea", happens to be somewhat of an expert on international shipping. He reminded me of the thrifty shipping methods available by frieght versus air.

Shipping to AU should be around $35 USD and shipping to Norway should be around $25 USD. This means the whole deal should be around $350-400 USD.

A smooth launch is very dependent on clutch friction material and clamping force. However, there are also other variables such as tire size, tire compound, diff ratio, suspension, engine management (AFMs are terrible for launching), etc.

I have found that changing one or two things away from OEM, generally leads to a worse total package than the original OEM. However, if you are building around your end goal and change many of the OEM properties, I have always found it best to use the appropriate parts from the beginning, driving a monster for brief periods, verus spending a lifetime swapping parts as your vehicle evolves. Also, as you mentioned, a v8 is inherently more balanced/stable and will launch much better without the inertial mass of a large flywheel.
 
username said:
Worrying about weight later is a "too late" battle. For weight reduction to be safe and significant it needs to be part of the initial design and materials choice.
If an enormous surface area flywheel and heavy clutch were best for performance, why does every race team use the smallest/lightest flywheel they can feasibly make? Why does every high performance vehicle (911 twin turbo, austin martin vanquish, ferrari maranello and enzo, mercedes mclaren, ford GT40, etc) use a flywheel the size of a music CD with a multi-stage clutch? I agree that a light flywheel is not best for all applications. However, for performance, there is nothing better... and lighter is never light enough.
Sorry, I'll have to respecfully disagree. I have seen too many people with tiny light clutches who can't even move the car without a 3000 rpm start. Most of those cars you mention above use a tiny clutch not primarliy because it is light, but because they want the engine as close to the ground as possbile, and they already have dry sump to take care of the engine ground clearance. The next obstacle is the large flywheel, and that's what they do, move to a very small clutch/flywheel setup to get the clearance they need, then they use 2 or 3 discs to make up for the lack of torque a small single disc has.

We have these very same clutches on Supras for a while now, the same tilton triple disk used in 24 hrs LeMans Vipers and other vehicles, and you know what, they are fantasic for racing, but for the street, they -suck-. Tilton actually had to make a much heavier all-steel flywheel for the Supra because it was so bad.

username said:
Yes, a metal based clutch will be very hard on a flywheel, but it will last a lot longer than a kevlar clutch. I destroyed two kevlar clutches in less than 30K miles. Besides, the fidanza flywheel has a steel insert that is replaceable ($50 from JEGS). A steel insert is cheaper, easier, and faster to replace than a clutch or solid flywheel.
Well, I have not had my kevlar clutch that long yet, but I can say it has no obvoius wear so far. I just hope the metal clutch does not warp the flywheel. We have has cases with the Supras where the metal clutch literally welds itself to the flywheel (probably only a drag race problem). FWIW, the RPS flywheel will have replaceable inserts.

username said:
I maintain, you will not find a better flywheel for the 1uzfe anywhere. To boot, it is cheaper (for US folks).
Finally, yes, I am amazed that so few people are interested in this. I have already begun the process of finding someone to make a one-off. However, I will hold onto this group buy for the long haul (a second or third flywheel cant hurt... it just means I can make more cars). It may be a while until we reach ten people, but it will definately be worth it.
Well, I wish you the best of luck. I'm sure both of our solutions will work.
 
Autronic, the metal based 2JZGTE clutches certainly will hold 600 lb/ft torque. I ran about 500 rwtq on my kevlar disk, and there was no slip at all, not even a hint of it. I plan on using a kevlar disk and pushing about 600 rwtq on the 1UZ I will be building.

You will always have better holding power on a clutch with a larger surface area vs a smaller surface area, given they both use the same material and number of discs. If you need even more holding power, RPS has a twin and triple disk carbon-carbon (all friction surfaces including the flywheel and PP are lined with carbon fibre). It uses a similar flywheel that I am getting, so it would not be too hard to get them to make that one for the 1UZ.
 

autronic

Moderator
turboandrew:

I'd prefeer a single plate, sprung centre clutch as I know how a light flywheel/twin plate ( solid centre ) behaves and I'm not prepared to put up that + the carbon/carbon solution is way overkill.

The flywheel will be made by the CNC guy I know, I'm aiming for a flywheel in the 13 to 15 lbs range that will take the largest pressure plate I can fit onto it and that looks to be a 250 mm, which happens to be the 2JZ Supra. The 2.0 16v Cosworth 4x4 have a 20 lbs and the RWD have a 14lbs flywheel. The 2.0 16v Cosworth 4x4 responds nicely to the RWD flywheel, It's marginally worse to drive but picks up better.

The flywheel will cost me about $ 60, I have to pay for the materials.

On second thought, I think I will get him to make me a few.
 

username

New Member
Will it be a 2JZgte or ge pressure plate and flywheel? For those who wish to know, the 2JZge clutch and pressure plate will fit the fidanza 1uz flywheel. The 2JZgte will not (too big).

I appreciate everyones comments. I have found an iron clutch with sprung center hub to be aggressive but very streetable. I guess, every man to his own...
 

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xirforever

Moderator
I did some searching on the internet and the 250 mm is the 2jz-GTE. Autronic can you make me one too? : ) Quick question, how long will your flywheel last? It wont have an insert i assume as the Fidanza one does. Anyway, username, if he can fit the 2jz-gte pressure plate can you talk to Fidanza again and see if you can get them to do the same?
 

YZFR1

New Member
I would love to do a manual conversion someday in the future. I would much rather put the Getrag 6 speed tho than the 7MGTE tranny (i think the R154) to my SC400. Would it be best to get this now and get the other parts later on? The older Supra Tranny is pretty good from what i hear and this will be a high HP SC400 sometime later on...... I would love for it to be a manual though......... Help :)


Dan
 

xirforever

Moderator
YZFR1 said:
I would love to do a manual conversion someday in the future. I would much rather put the Getrag 6 speed tho than the 7MGTE tranny (i think the R154) to my SC400. Would it be best to get this now and get the other parts later on? The older Supra Tranny is pretty good from what i hear and this will be a high HP SC400 sometime later on...... I would love for it to be a manual though......... Help :)


Dan
there were two types of manual trannys for that engine (i think?), the w58 and the R154, the R154 is stronger than the (EDIT W58 ) and much cheaper than the getrag, if i had the money id plan to use the getrag in a heartbeat. But im underbudget and the r154 will do me just fine : )

There, now my post makes sense, lol.
 

cribbj

"Supra" Moderator
Staff member
The MKIII Supra with the 7M motor used the R154 (5spd)

The MKIV Supra with the 2JZ motors used the W58 (5spd) in the NA car, and the V160 (Getrag 6spd) in the turbo car.

According to Getrag's website, the 6spd, known internally as their model 233, is rated at 490 Nm torque. It's one strong box.

John
 

YZFR1

New Member
Lextreme said:
i would pick T56 than the Getrag 6 speed. You can find the T56 very cheap.
How cheap can a T56 be found? How hard is it to adapt? What parts are needed? Where can i find a list? Thanks in advance :)


Dan
 

xirforever

Moderator
cribbj said:
The MKIII Supra with the 7M motor used the R154 (5spd)

The MKIV Supra with the 2JZ motors used the W58 (5spd) in the NA car, and the V160 (Getrag 6spd) in the turbo car.

According to Getrag's website, the 6spd, known internally as their model 233, is rated at 490 Nm torque. It's one strong box.

John
We are getting way off topic, but did the R154 come with both 7m-ge and 7m-gte motors? You just specified 7m, and i am very curious. Thanks
 

xirforever

Moderator
username, have you contacted with fidanza again to double check if the 7m-gte pressure plate will fit? And if so if you can have them just drill in the holes for that plate?

Thanks,
Nick
 
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