1UZ Vs. 2UZ HP & TQ

[turboandrew]

While we're on the topic of forged, are the group buy rods powder forged or "manly man" forged?

 

[cribbj]

When a knowledgeable person states that these rods aren't forged, less knowledgeable people read this, and assume they must be cast, and hence, they're POS's, etc. Then when these less knowledgeable folks go spreading the gospel that the Toyota UZ family is a POS because they “heard” it has cast rods as stock, it gives the engine and the PF technology a bad name.

Especially when they start comparing the UZ to, for example, the mighty 2JZ-GTE which everybody "knows" has an indestructible bottom end with forged crank and forged rods. But, in reality the 2JZ-GTE’s rods are also powder forged, although Toyota refers to them as "hot forged", which, I suppose, may sound more impressive to some than “powder forged”. I wonder how many 600+ HP Supra owners realise that their stock connecting rods are made of powdered metal?

Personally, I have no issue with the technology nor the metallurgy of powdered metal forging, and believe it will eventually replace conventional forging. I think it’s great engineering when a manufacturer can mix up a cocktail of different metal powders and produce a new alloy with completely predictable and repeatable characteristics. Many very high performance engines today are using PF rods and other components in preference over conventional forging.

In regards to the UZ rod's lack of elasticity, that's simply a characteristic of the powdered metal cocktail that was used. If Toyota had wanted more elasticity in the rod, it should have been a simple matter to produce it. For their own reasons, Toyota must believe a rigid rod is a good thing (well shoot, don't we all?, hehehe)

p.s. It’s a little known fact that Niki Lauda won the 1984 Formula 1 World Championship with a Tag (Porsche) engine that used PF rods. That year, between Lauda and his teammate Prost (who placed 2nd) that Tag engine won 12 of the 16 races. That was 24 years ago, and the technology has only gotten better since then.

 

[jibbby]

Alot of talk about rod strength and makeup... Since I got all the heads looking in on this thread I thought I would ask a basic question... How about titanium OEM rods as shown in the picure below...Now wouldn't these rods be the strongest, even over forged rods? Also, I think I've seen Alluminum connecting rods, I think I've seen those in performance engines too, now wouldn't those be considered the weakest?



These are titanium OEM connection rods....

 

[cribbj]

Titanium is the ultimate rod material, but it can gall, IIRC. Still, Ferrari use it (maybe exclusively?) for the rods in their engines.

Aluminum is the poor boy's version of titanium. Very good for high rpm due to its light weight, but needs frequent replacement.

The builder of my V12 put a set of titanium rods in a motor he built a few years ago for an 850ci owner. Considering a set of stock rods for the M70 V12 weighs over 14 lbs, and the titanium set weighed right at 9 lbs, that's significantly less force getting slung around at 8K. Unfortunately the adder "just" for the rods was a cool $6500.

 

[jibbby]

$6500 for rods, oh my!!!! Thanks for the clarification John... Recieved and understood...

 

[XR8tt]

Eagle have Honda and some popular Chevy titanium rods..
From memory $1k for four...

 

[ed_ma61]

the only reason i can see PF being used more is cost, and cost alone

same goes for the aluminium based bearings in the that new 5.7 tundra engine davids put the pics up on. these things are getting 'cheaper' to look at each new engine family that gets produced. i crige more and more

i mean sure itll get mum and dad to the shops for 200k miles, but the old school toyota mega overengineering is falling by the wayside it seems.

sure, i imagine the PF process to be *capable* of interesting, if not strong and reliable things metalurgically speaking, but to say this process is optimised in such a way in an oem family taxi configuration? ill take drop forged billet for now, thanks

what i *will* do to be constructive here, is drop my dead argo rod, as well as one of the vvti "skinny" PF rods off to a metalurgist (who also happens to be cryoing my crank) and get some actual comparative numbers on them

cheers
ed

 

[XR8tt]

Japan switched to alloy bearings as lead etc is a no no epa wise..
Found this when trying to buy CB80 Daihatsu bearings..
Alloy rods are used on high output engines where short duration is used as in drag racing etc...
Alloys have changed over the years.. Some are able to be used for street use..
In high output engines as blown etc.. A forged steel crank can do the job short term over billet crank...
In drag racing alloy rods are used 90% of the time..Alloy softens the harmonics in rotating assembly...

 

[lowboost]

what would those 2uz titanium rods cost lex?

 

[Lextreme II]

If you guys are interested, I can get a GP going on the Titanium rods. Not sure the price yet.

 

[lowboost]

pricing would be nice to know, but at the moment (inspite of having a 1uz in my garage) i'm still considering other motors, 2uz and 3uz.... going saturday to look at an SC430 front clip and see if the clip is worth getting. But titanium rods would be awesome.